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Subject: Ongoing cards rss

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Doug Kewley
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I am trying to understand ongoing effects cards. I read the errata that says once played they do not count against your hand size.

Does this mean that if I have an ongoing effect card, I must first play it as an action. Then is sits in front of me (not discarded) until the end of the game. Is this correct?

Also, does the ongoing effect only effect my character or all conspirators?
 
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Paulo Renato
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Vila Nova Gaia
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you are correct... you have to spend an action to play the card for the effect to be in play.

I think that there are cards that only affect you and there are others that affect all players
 
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Game Salute
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--see ruling further down the thread--
 
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Kristo Vaher
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Isn't this ridiculously fiddly? The rulebook says to keep cards in front of you face up already and ongoing cards look exactly like the other cards.

Why should they not count as part of hand? In every way it looks like that was the intended rule - otherwise they would look different (like plot or restricted cards).
 
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John R.
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dakjck wrote:
Then is sits in front of me (not discarded) until the end of the game.

There are two Restricted cards with residual effects - 'Classified Papers' (ongoing effect) and 'Concealed Pistol' (counts as an item).
Once played from your hand, and before they are discarded (either through use or by meeting the discard criterion), do they still count for purposes of 'Gestapo Raids' (p.7) and/or 'Arrested Conspirators' (p.8)?

That is, can they be discarded during a Raid, and will they boost Suspicion if not discarded? Must they be discarded during an Arrested Conspirator's turn and will they force the loss of additional card for each one held?

The rules don't appear to specify that Restricted Cards must be in your hand to count against you in the two situations noted above. Thematically, I assume that the papers and/or the pistol are still in the possession of the conspirator and therefore subject to the rules on Raids and Arrested Conspirators.

I am assuming that they still 'count' in these cases, even though they have been 'played'.
 
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Game Salute
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Ongoing cards are part of your face-up hand. They provide their effects as soon as they are in your hand, and you do not need to spend an action to “activate” them.

However, since they are part of your hand, they are subject to hand size limits or any other effects that affect cards in hand. Effects granted by these cards end immediately when the card leaves your hand.

In essence, the only cards in front of you at any time are the ones in your hand - there is no separate “in play” area in front of you.
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Paulo Renato
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Game Salute wrote:
Ongoing cards are part of your face-up hand. They provide their effects as soon as they are in your hand, and you do not need to spend an action to “activate” them.

However, since they are part of your hand, they are subject to hand size limits or any other effects that affect cards in hand. Effects granted by these cards end immediately when the card leaves your hand.

In essence, the only cards in front of you at any time are the ones in your hand - there is no separate “in play” area in front of you.


You guys have to make up your mind...

when I asked you this question your reply was:

Quote:
Cards with Ongoing Effects

You have to use an action to play any card, even ongoing effects. Putting them face-up is essentially just having your hand face-up, but there's still a difference between your hand and in-play, if that makes sense.


Then I followed up with another question:

Quote:
Hi,

one more question regarding the Ongoing Effect cards...

Since you have to play them, when you do they stop counting to your Hand Limit or do they still count?

I would say they don't because you have played them and because of that they are not a part of your hand anymore, but I would like to be sure because I've been wrong before

Thank you


To which you replied:

Quote:
Correct, once played, they are not in your hand and do not count against your hand limit.


Now you say this that completely contradicts what you told me before... so which way is it?!?

Also, form the FAQ that you have edited:

Game Salute wrote:


Cards in Hand vs Cards in Play: The cards in your face-up hand are not considered to be in play.

Ongoing Effects: Once played, ongoing effect cards are do not count against your hand limit.


I've defended you in other threads from another user claiming that the rulebook is bad and confusing... I said that apart from a few things that are bound to happen in every game the rulebook is very good and clear and that you have been active in clearing any confusion here but man, you are creating a lot of confusion with this contradicting yourself, editing things and leaving others that contradict what you just edited...
 
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Philip duBarry
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Sorry for the confusion. We had a good discussion about this issue today and the above statement is what we agreed on going forward. Thanks.
 
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Jack
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Philip - I agree. Makes for less confusion - a card in hand is a card in hand. Very good.
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Kiran Wagle
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pdubarry wrote:
Sorry for the confusion. We had a good discussion about this issue today and the above statement is what we agreed on going forward. Thanks.


Which above statement?

Several of these cards are confusing. Such as: does Defections and Dissent go away the moment anyone rolls a Gestapo badge, even if nobody has chosen to store dice on the card?
 
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Massimiliano della Rovere
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KWagle wrote:
pdubarry wrote:
Sorry for the confusion. We had a good discussion about this issue today and the above statement is what we agreed on going forward. Thanks.


Which above statement?

Several of these cards are confusing. Such as: does Defections and Dissent go away the moment anyone rolls a Gestapo badge, even if nobody has chosen to store dice on the card?


The card does not give you the option to declare whether the dice rolled will be used in conjunction with "Defections and Dissent" or not.
Thus, the way I use the card is this: since you play the card, it stays "active", with no way of ignoring it, until at least one eagle is rolled.
 
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Massimiliano della Rovere
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Game Salute wrote:
Ongoing cards are part of your face-up hand. They provide their effects as soon as they are in your hand, and you do not need to spend an action to “activate” them.

However, since they are part of your hand, they are subject to hand size limits or any other effects that affect cards in hand. Effects granted by these cards end immediately when the card leaves your hand.

In essence, the only cards in front of you at any time are the ones in your hand - there is no separate “in play” area in front of you.


Please tell me if I got this right. I know the following layout is a bit GMT-ish, but is useful for the FAQ I'm compiling gathering information from all the posts I find.

1) Conspirator cards are publicly displayed face-up in front of the owner player. Thus your "hand of cards" isn't held in your hand, but in front of you, again, face-up on the table.

2) There are 7 kinds of Conspirator cards:
2.1) "Ongoing Effect" (just 3: "Safe", "Classfied Papers", "Defections and Dissent")
2.2) "Play on any turn - Not an Action"
2.3) "Play at any time - Not an Action"
2.4) "Play as an Action"
2.5) "Play as an Item" (just 1: "Concealed Pistol")
2.6) Reaction Cards (just 2: "False Accusations" and "Officer Recruited")
2.7) Plot cards

3) Some kinds of cards are automatically active, other ones require an action to be activated. Cards that must be explicitly activated or played, are resolved and then discarded, thus freeing one "player hand slot".
3.1) Cards whose kind is 2.1 ("Ongoing Effect") are automatically active and they *do* consume one "player hand slot" until they are discarded by the player to respect the hand size or due to any other card effect.
3.2) Cards whose kind is 2.2 or 2.3 ("Play on any turn - Not an Action", "Play at any time - Not an Action") are *not* automatically active. To be activated they must be explicitly played, but their activation is free, i.e. doesn't consume a player action. These cards can be played also during another player turn.
What is the difference between "Play on any turn - Not an Action" and "Play at any time - Not an Action"?
3.3) Cards whose kind is 2.4 ("Play as an Action") are *not* automatically active. Each of these cards consumes one action to be activated. When the card is activated, it leaves the player's hand and is put back in the box, so it does not consume one "player hand slot" any longer. These cards can be played exclusively during the owner player turn.
3.4) Cards whose kind is 2.5 ("Play as an Item") are automatically active and still consuming one "player hand slot" until they are discarded by the player to respect the hand size or due to any other card effect. These cards can be played exclusively during the owner player turn.
3.5) Cards whose kind is 2.6 (Reaction Cards) can be played without consuming an action but only in the situation described on the card. These cards can be played exclusively during the owner player turn.
3.6) Cards whose kind is 2.7 ("Plot Cards") are *not* automatically active. Each of these cards consumes one action to be activated. When the card is activated, it remains in the player's hand still consuming one "player hand slot" until they are discarded by the player to respect the hand size or due to any other card effect. These cards can be played exclusively during the owner player turn.

4) Once in the player hand, the "Defection and Dissent" card is always active 'till any player rolls an Eagle during a CONSPIRE action. All the CONSPIRE action rolls are automatically affecting the DaD card. The players are not allowed to declare at any time that a CONSPIRE action dice roll ignores the card.


If this is correct then in the FAQ the text
Quote:
Cards in Hand vs Cards in Play: The cards in your face-up hand are not considered to be in play.

should be changed to
Quote:
Cards in Hand vs Cards in Play: The cards in your face-up hand are not considered to be in play or not depending on what is written in section #3.
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Frederik
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Massimiliano, nice write-up. Very useful, looking forward to some replies on this.
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Jack
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masdero wrote:
I know the following layout is a bit GMT-ish


And that's where you lost me.
 
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Massimiliano della Rovere
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senorcoo wrote:
masdero wrote:
I know the following layout is a bit GMT-ish


And that's where you lost me.


 
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Massimiliano della Rovere
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Exoow wrote:
Massimiliano, nice write-up. Very useful, looking forward to some replies on this.


I am planning to write a comprehensive FAQ/Errata and rewrite the rules, if I get the permission from the author, embedding the FAQ/ERRATA, using the above style and maybe translate it all to Italian.

It would be great to have the rules in a plain text file...
 
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Kiran Wagle
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masdero wrote:
[q="Game Salute"]Ongoing cards are part of your face-up hand. They provide their effects as soon as they are in your hand, and you do not need to spend an action to “activate” them.

4) Once played, the "Defection and Dissent" card is always active 'till any player rolls an Eagle during a CONSPIRE action. All the CONSPIRE action rolls are automatically affecting the DaD card. The players are not allowed to declare at any time that a CONSPIRE action dice roll ignores the card.


The first paragraph says ongoing cards do not have to be "played" because they are active automatically. The second one says "once played". But you don't have to pay them, which would take an action anyway.
 
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Massimiliano della Rovere
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KWagle wrote:
masdero wrote:
[q="Game Salute"]Ongoing cards are part of your face-up hand. They provide their effects as soon as they are in your hand, and you do not need to spend an action to “activate” them.

4) Once played, the "Defection and Dissent" card is always active 'till any player rolls an Eagle during a CONSPIRE action. All the CONSPIRE action rolls are automatically affecting the DaD card. The players are not allowed to declare at any time that a CONSPIRE action dice roll ignores the card.


The first paragraph says ongoing cards do not have to be "played" because they are active automatically. The second one says "once played". But you don't have to pay them, which would take an action anyway.


You're right. I'm fixing that.
 
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Kirk K

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Game Salute wrote:
Ongoing cards are part of your face-up hand. They provide their effects as soon as they are in your hand, and you do not need to spend an action to “activate” them.

However, since they are part of your hand, they are subject to hand size limits or any other effects that affect cards in hand. Effects granted by these cards end immediately when the card leaves your hand.

In essence, the only cards in front of you at any time are the ones in your hand - there is no separate “in play” area in front of you.


Is this the final, official ruling? I've seen contradicting info in different threads, and the FAQ/errata did not clarify the issue...
 
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Game Salute
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Dice is Right wrote:
Game Salute wrote:
Ongoing cards are part of your face-up hand. They provide their effects as soon as they are in your hand, and you do not need to spend an action to “activate” them.

However, since they are part of your hand, they are subject to hand size limits or any other effects that affect cards in hand. Effects granted by these cards end immediately when the card leaves your hand.

In essence, the only cards in front of you at any time are the ones in your hand - there is no separate “in play” area in front of you.


Is this the final, official ruling? I've seen contradicting info in different threads, and the FAQ/errata did not clarify the issue...


Yes this is the final official ruling thumbsup
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Kirk K

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Thank you! I'm looking forward to playing this!
 
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