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Fields of Fire» Forums » Rules

Subject: New enemy placement in intervening card (along friendly line of fire) rss

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César Moreno
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Castellon
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So my squad entered a card and automatically open fire against a unit two cards ahead (open fields in the middle). The unit being fired upon is not returning fire because a fire mission was succesfully called on that card (from a different position).

The squad triggers a PC marker, that calls for an enemy unit to be placed, unspotted, just in front of him.

1) what does the squad do? I don't think those guys will shift fire to the new enemy. On the other hand, I'm not sure they can fire through the new enemy to the second card (this shot was somewhat important because it granted crossfire to be added to the arty mission).

2) Always wondered what does the unit suffering artillery barrage do. Does it fire anyway (nowhere to), wasting ammo? Does it just freeze this turn?
 
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Juno
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Hi!
The first question its a tricky one. I'll try my best, but maybe I'm wrong, who knows...
I see two possible answers:

1a- It's not a legal placement.
But Rules As Written seems to negate this affirmation (9.2.2).

----- OR -----

1b- Your squad doesn't fire through the new enemy. They don't Shif Fire, the PDF stay at the same direction; but the VOF of your squad go to the "Open Terrain" where the unspotted unit blocks your line of fire.
But Rules As Written seems to negate these affirmations (last paragraph of 9.3)


IMHO, I'll play it like 1b
Anyone willing to put some more light?
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César Moreno
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I'm not at all sure that enemy units would block los.

I'll try to explain what I think:

1) you're not allowed to fire through your own units for safety reasons - unless overhead fire (6.4) is an option. This makes me think you're actually allowed to fire through enemy units, unconcerned about potential stray bullets.

2) I've only seen in the rules several cases where units would automatically shift fire (6.1). New enemy units appearing along line of fire is not one of them.

3) same as you, I think this is a legal placement. It wouldn't if along enemy pdfs, but no problem with friendly bullets.

Of course I'm not at all convinced by my own reasoning, just explaining it here so it may be refuted by most experienced players.
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Juno
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Hi Cesar,

1) You are not allowed to fire through enemy units unless you use a machine gun with "grazing fire" (6.4 Section Machinegun)
Incorrect. See Ricky Gray's answer below

2) Where in rule's 6.1 states that units would automatically shift fire? I don't see it.
And if I understood your question/example right, your squad doesn't shift fire. I'm pretty sure about this
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César Moreno
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1) you make a great point. Also in 6.4, machineguns, grazing fire we find this well hidden rule: "[...] the vof is exerted into the closest enemy occupied card along the pdf and within los". I was looking for something like this but didn't think of looking here.

2) I just meant there are some cases where units would automatically shift fire, they're described in 6.1 (ordered to shift fire, an enemy unit enters its card). Maybe another bullet would be needed:
· An enemy unit appears or moves in an intervening card along the pdf.
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Juno
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Hi Cesar, don't wanna sound rude (you know it ), but I want to put these points clear: (maybe we are lost in translation)

NoMasOvejas wrote:
2) I just meant there are some cases where units would automatically shift fire
I don't recall any case in that your units would automatically shift fire. Once the PDF is created, doesn't move it's direction (unless you order it)


NoMasOvejas wrote:
they're described in 6.1
6.1 It's only the explanation of when the units open fire. I can't see where you read that units would automatically shift fire


NoMasOvejas wrote:
ordered to shift fire
If you order "shift fire", then it isn't automatic


NoMasOvejas wrote:
an enemy unit enters its card
When an enemy enter to your occupied card (or in reverse) both LOSE the PDF. This it isn't the same that "shift fire"



TL: DR
I don't recall any case in that your units would automatically shift fire without order or pyros

Maybe this can help you/others
 
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Ricky Gray
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Powder Springs
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Quote:
So my squad entered a card and automatically open fire against a unit two cards ahead (open fields in the middle). The unit being fired upon is not returning fire because a fire mission was succesfully called on that card (from a different position).

The squad triggers a PC marker, that calls for an enemy unit to be placed, unspotted, just in front of him.

1) what does the squad do? I don't think those guys will shift fire to the new enemy. On the other hand, I'm not sure they can fire through the new enemy to the second card (this shot was somewhat important because it granted crossfire to be added to the arty mission).


The newly-placed enemy is unspotted, so your guys would not fire at them even if they were the only enemy unit on the map :-). They'll have to be spotted first, then your unit given a shift fire command. In the meantime, your squad keeps firing at its same target.

Quote:
2) Always wondered what does the unit suffering artillery barrage do. Does it fire anyway (nowhere to), wasting ammo? Does it just freeze this turn?


Since they cannot fire out of the card at that point, an enemy unit under an Incoming! VOF will Cease fire per 9.4. Enemy units will not continue to fire into a card where there are no longer any valid targets (any non-casualty Units). In this case assume the enemy has received a Cease Fire Command. Friendly units under an Incoming! will retract their VOF to their own card and continue firing until given a cease fire order (or until the Incoming! lifts and they are given a shift fire to a target).

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Tony Oddo
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My recollection is that enemy placement does not take place in an existing Line of Fire. I believe you would draw for another enemy location.

This is off the top of my head. I don't have the rules in front of me.
 
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Ricky Gray
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Quote:
My recollection is that enemy placement does not take place in an existing Line of Fire. I believe you would draw for another enemy location.


An enemy unit will not appear on a card that is in an existing ENEMY line of fire. But there is no such proscription against an enemy appearing along an existing friendly line of fire.

Best,
Ricky
 
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Juno
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Preacher wrote:

The newly-placed enemy is unspotted, so your guys would not fire at them even if they were the only enemy unit on the map :-). They'll have to be spotted first, then your unit given a shift fire command. In the meantime, your squad keeps firing at its same target.


So Ricky, can we assume that a PDF can go through an unspotted enemy unit?
And if the case is given with an spotted unit?

Thanks in advance
 
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Ricky Gray
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Quote:
So Ricky, can we assume that a PDF can go through an unspotted enemy unit?
And if the case is given with an spotted unit?


Yes in both cases. In the first case, your units do not even know that the enemy is there. In the second case, they'll need a shift fire to target.

Best,
Ricky
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