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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Exploit to auto-win the 3rd scenario? rss

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Mr. Body
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Someone tell me if I made a mistake interpreting the scenario conditions, but I think there's a way to completely skip the 2nd scenario (immediately resign) then auto-win the 3rd.

Spoilers obviously


1st scenario- A cakewalk. Should have no trouble getting through it. At the end, choose to burn down the house. Get Lita ally card in the deck.

2nd scenario- Resign immediately (or at the first sign of things going bad if you wanted to play a little just for some experience points)

3rd scenario- Sit on main path the entire time, drawing cards until you get Lita. You WANT the doom to advance to the final agenda, which will make the ritual site appear without needing to gather clues from the woods. You do NOT want to gather any clues, since advancing Act 1 will spawn all the surviving unique cultists on the main path. Get to Agenda 3 without advancing the act deck, and you get the ritual site without spawning the cultists. This means you don't have to defeat any of them in the 2nd scenario (bonus it will start the doom already close to Agenda 2 at the beginning of 3rd Scenario). Move to ritual site, immediately use action to toss Lita to the ancient one. Win.

Did I miss something?
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Oliver Broom
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Don't forget that every round you will be drawing an Encounter card per Investigator while you mine your deck/s for Lita, so you will still have to deal with whatever comes up there and apart from not having to deal with negative (but also missing out on positive) mechanics from revealing Arkham Wood locations, I don't see how it adds much to your win/loss chances?
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Xuzu Horror
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
If you look in the campaign book, that outcome is not technically a win or a loss. The other outcomes clearly say if the investigators win or lose, but that specific outcome is neither.

Basically, if you can't actually win, you may go that route since it's better than losing.

In one of my solo campaigns, I was one successful attack shy of winning and knew I'd die the next phase so instead of getting one more attack in (since I needed 3 successful attacks and one of the them was unsuccessful), I sacrificed Lita and neither win nor lost.

 
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Mr. Body
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Timbar wrote:
Don't forget that every round you will be drawing an Encounter card per Investigator while you mine your deck/s for Lita, so you will still have to deal with whatever comes up there and apart from not having to deal with negative (but also missing out on positive) mechanics from revealing Arkham Wood locations, I don't see how it adds much to your win/loss chances?


You get to spend all your actions on gearing up with cards and resources without having to spend any actions on moving or investigating. Plus all investigators are in one spot and can gang up on any monsters that pop up on the path.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Not to mention how much insanely easier it is to avoid the cultist spawn and use one action to sacrifice her than it is to deal with the cultists and go with the other fight/clue options of beating the ancient one


Considering what that person wanted to do in the first scenario, I consider the 3rd resolution a win
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Dustin Hall
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I think you missed the fun of playing through a thematic Role-playing card game. But yeah, I guess technically this would work.
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Kevin Cioffi

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If you consider it a "win" to sacrifice a champion of Arkham to an ancient evil, walk out with two additional mental and physical trauma because of the horrible thing you did, and another weakness added to your deck then yep, look at that sick exploit. You sure showed them.

I got that ending once because I had no other way out. The next time through I went down guns blazing instead because I just don't roll like that. I wouldn't dream of camping out at the starting location just to try to auto-pilot into that ending.
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J. Crisman
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Short answer?

That's the simplest way to END the game.

End. Not "win".

Unless, as previously stated, you consider sacrificing the one known person (other than yourself...well...not really in your case) fighting to save the world to an Ancient One for the sake of simplicity a "win".

shake
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John Gonzalez
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I had a somewhat similar experience playing solo as Roland Banks.

Scenario 1: No problem, 9 xp.

Scenario 2: Disaster. Failed to interrogate even 1 cultist.

Scenario 3: More disaster. First agenda starts with 3 doom on it, so it doesn't take long for the big bad to spawn... Whereupon I hang out on the main path, patiently drawing through my deck three times (Elder Sign offset horror for reshuffles) and tossing 3 dynamites into the ritual site for 9 damage. Then I moseyed up to the big bad and shot it dead.

My impression was that my utter failures in the second scenario and first part of the third made victory a lot easier. Sure, I had an encounter card to deal with every round, but at a draw rate of 4 cards per round (3 draw actions + the free draw in the upkeep phase) I could afford to commit cards to pass those.

If the big boss had had a doom threshold, even a big one (15-20), I wouldn't have stood a chance...
 
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J P
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Jongoloid wrote:
I had a somewhat similar experience playing solo as Roland Banks.

Scenario 1: No problem, 9 xp.

Scenario 2: Disaster. Failed to interrogate even 1 cultist.

Scenario 3: More disaster. First agenda starts with 3 doom on it, so it doesn't take long for the big bad to spawn... Whereupon I hang out on the main path, patiently drawing through my deck three times (Elder Sign offset horror for reshuffles) and tossing 3 dynamites into the ritual site for 9 damage. Then I moseyed up to the big bad and shot it dead.

My impression was that my utter failures in the second scenario and first part of the third made victory a lot easier. Sure, I had an encounter card to deal with every round, but at a draw rate of 4 cards per round (3 draw actions + the free draw in the upkeep phase) I could afford to commit cards to pass those.

If the big boss had had a doom threshold, even a big one (15-20), I wouldn't have stood a chance...


I may be misunderstanding, but I don't think that's legal. For one thing, Umordhoth has the "hunter" keyword. Also, how'd you get 3 dynamites?
 
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Richard Poole
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The bit about the elder sign necklace offsetting horror from reshuffling his deck gives me a pretty good idea where the third dynamite came from.

That said, the hunter keyword should've made things quite a bit more complicated than it appears.
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Matthew Sigal
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Escapade wrote:
The bit about the elder sign necklace offsetting horror from reshuffling his deck gives me a pretty good idea where the third dynamite came from.

That said, the hunter keyword should've made things quite a bit more complicated than it appears.


Wait, there is no actual way to reshuffle though right? I'm like 95% sure that isn't a thing.
 
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Richard Poole
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From the rules reference entry "Drawing Cards":

Quote:
If an investigator with an empty investigator deck needs
to draw a card, that investigator shuffles his or her discard
pile back into his or her deck, then draws the card, and
upon completion of the entire draw takes one horror.
 
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Matthew Sigal
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Escapade wrote:
From the rules reference entry "Drawing Cards":

Quote:
If an investigator with an empty investigator deck needs
to draw a card, that investigator shuffles his or her discard
pile back into his or her deck, then draws the card, and
upon completion of the entire draw takes one horror.


OMG.
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Matthew Sigal
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Is there any reason to be concerned about the "needs to draw" part of that? Like if I use an action to draw, is that a "need"?
 
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mathew rynich
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This game isn't about winning or losing. It's a storytelling game. Was that a satisfying way for you to play through the campaign? That's what is important. Also if you really care about "winning" then that resolution wasn't technically a win.
 
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John Gonzalez
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DancingFool wrote:


I may be misunderstanding, but I don't think that's legal. For one thing, Umordhoth has the "hunter" keyword. Also, how'd you get 3 dynamites?


I got the dynamites by drawing through my deck three times, so that was legal in theory -- but oh my, you're absolutely right that Umordhoth is a "Hunter," so my inadvertent "exploit" was simply wrong. Don't know how I missed that! I'm just about to play scenario 3 again on a 2-handed Daisy & Skids playthrough, so I won't repeat that mistake.

Thanks for pointing out my error -- ironically, I'm quite relieved to learn that Umordhoth is properly terrifying.

Hmm, my Daisy does have Lita in her deck, so I may need to consider darker options...

LITA: We cannot delay! The ritual must be stopped!

SKIDS: We hear ya, toots. Just gimme a sec to pilfer some jars from this rack here...

LITA: What are you doing? We need weapons, not spices!

DAISY: Lita, be a dear and put this apple in your mouth, would you?

LITA: Mmmmph-mmmrble-mmmordtth-mmmph!

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Cameron McKenzie
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Even if you aren't planning on tossing Lita, it's still better not to advance the act if you intend to win by defeating the boss.

If you do really badly in scenario 2, whether you tried to or not, then it's much better NOT to advance the act in scenario 3 and just gear up for combat.

I think I might just give the boss something like "immune to damage during act 1" which closes the loophole nicely.
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David Jensen
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This is a terribly anti-climatic gamey way to play. *I have a love/hate relationship with these exploits. That means I have to try it at least once =)
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Mr. Body
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MasterDinadan wrote:
Even if you aren't planning on tossing Lita, it's still better not to advance the act if you intend to win by defeating the boss.

If you do really badly in scenario 2, whether you tried to or not, then it's much better NOT to advance the act in scenario 3 and just gear up for combat.

I think I might just give the boss something like "immune to damage during act 1" which closes the loophole nicely.


The 3rd "win" condition was only part of the problem we had with the campaign.

It was a bunch of things that just added up.

- The choice at the end of the 1st scenario is incredibly lopsided.

- The difficulty MASSIVELY spikes in the 2nd scenario.

- 2nd and 3rd scenario's stated goals usually run contrary to what helps you win. Instead of running around getting clues to make the weak cultists pop up while avoiding the hunter, it's usually better to just gear up to ambush and kill the hunter cultist as soon as he appears. Killing him so he doesn't show up in the final scenario is almost worth as much as killing all 5 of the other named cultists. And like you said, for the 3rd scenario it's usually better to not advance the act deck at all for the final showdown.

- Wendy is the worst possible choice for a first time player. I have no idea why they recommended her for the first playthrough. She can be good but is very tricky to use. Plus given how the 2nd & 3rd scenarios are designed, killing everything is a much better strategy than evading (at least until after the first playthrough when you would know how to game it so a different approach would work).


I was hoping future campaigns would be better designed but after looking at their insane expansion pricing I'm not sure our group will be sticking with it.
 
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D H
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fahbs2000 wrote:
- The choice at the end of the 1st scenario is incredibly lopsided.


How so? You have a choice between putting a good card into your deck (and paying 1 Trauma for that), vs. not having access to her and getting 1 XP.

Quote:
- 2nd and 3rd scenario's stated goals usually run contrary to what helps you win. Instead of running around getting clues to make the weak cultists pop up while avoiding the hunter, it's usually better to just gear up to ambush and kill the hunter cultist as soon as he appears.


We're usually capable of both killing the Hunter and getting 2-3 of the other main cultists under control at the same time. Best we've done so far is 5!

Of course, Chaos Bag is Chaos Bag, so not all plans work as advertised, but it's hardly a necessity to have the hunter removed before Scenario 3.

Quote:
Killing him so he doesn't show up in the final scenario is almost worth as much as killing all 5 of the other named cultists.


I have to disagree there. I'd much rather deal with the hunter in Scenario 3 than give up on 3-4 additional XP.

Quote:
- Wendy is the worst possible choice for a first time player. I have no idea why they recommended her for the first playthrough. She can be good but is very tricky to use. Plus given how the 2nd & 3rd scenarios are designed, killing everything is a much better strategy than evading (at least until after the first playthrough when you would know how to game it so a different approach would work).


That's interesting, because that's the opposite of what we're thinking. Wendy is a great choice for new players because she can do everything *but* fight pretty darn well, and she's also very resilient. She's not tricky to use (nobody around here has had problems with her), and she teaches new players that there's more way around enemies than just killing them.

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Cameron McKenzie
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I think Skids+Daisy is a more effective team (if Skids acts like Daisy's bodyguard and just lets her worry about all the clues) but I don't think it's very fun for Daisy.
Roland+Daisy is a good combo to learn about the different strategies offered by each class even if it's not necessarily the best.
 
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Andrew Burns
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Gaffa wrote:
She's not tricky to use (nobody around here has had problems with her), and she teaches new players that there's more way around enemies than just killing them.


I find her tricky. She's great for getting away from things - but hunters are a killer, especially in the third scenario. I just don't feel like I "get" her. Or Roland, come to that. Skids feels more balanced, Daisy and Agnes are awesome.
 
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soulblight
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Gaffa wrote:
fahbs2000 wrote:
- The choice at the end of the 1st scenario is incredibly lopsided.


How so? You have a choice between putting a good card into your deck (and paying 1 Trauma for that), vs. not having access to her and getting 1 XP.


You're also giving up the ability to use the R3 action on Umordhoth's card.
 
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Steve Scothern
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Foe us, the choice is not as lopsided as you think.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
We've been doing MUCH better in Scenario 2 since we stopped burning the house down. The two easy clues at the house are a significant help.
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