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Subject: Reputation and Regions? rss

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Casual Tryhard
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In the rulebook, the example of paying reputation to use the abilities of someone else's region requires a ship to be present at that location -- since the example given is repairing a ship with a Port.

However, is there any general rule that the player paying reputation has to have a ship in the region he's paying to use?

Could I for example pay a reputation to use someone else's Guild Hall while both my ships were out at sea far from the region where the Guild Hall was built? The rules don't say.

As the guy most likely to build structures in our campaign, I am constantly reminding people that they can pay me reputation if they like, but in 15 games no one has yet taken me up on it, so the problem has never come up in practice. However, we are now trying to do something at sea for which a particular structure could be relevant, so....
 
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Becq Starforged
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Hexprone wrote:
In the rulebook, the example of paying reputation to use the abilities of someone else's region requires a ship to be present at that location -- since the example given is repairing a ship with a Port.

However, is there any general rule that the player paying reputation has to have a ship in the region he's paying to use?

Could I for example pay a reputation to use someone else's Guild Hall while both my ships were out at sea far from the region where the Guild Hall was built? The rules don't say.

As the guy most likely to build structures in our campaign, I am constantly reminding people that they can pay me reputation if they like, but in 15 games no one has yet taken me up on it, so the problem has never come up in practice. However, we are now trying to do something at sea for which a particular structure could be relevant, so....

When you pay someone reputation (and they accept; remember that they can refuse), then all of their powers are available to you as if they were yours, for the remainder of the turn. That means that you can use their repair icon at their home port, you can use any of their structure powers, and you can (Box 2 spoiler)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
use colony powers or colony structure powers.


In all cases, you have to follow the normal rules as though those structures were your own. If a structure gives a power to a particular space (like a Port or Market), then you'd have to be in or move to that space to take advantage of it. If a power is global (like the Observatory or the Guild Hall), then you don't.

And you don't need presence to offer the rep in the first place, so it would probably be a good idea to make the offer and see if it's accepted before sailing your good-laden ship to sell at their market.

But you're right -- we haven't gotten as far as you, but so far nobody has used this rule, mostly because reputation tends to get spent very, very quickly -- generally before this rule would be useful.
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Matt S
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Becq wrote:
When you pay someone reputation (and they accept; remember that they can refuse), then all of their powers are available to you as if they were yours, for the remainder of the turn. That means that you can use their repair icon at their home port, you can use any of their structure powers, and you can (Box 2 spoiler)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
use colony powers or colony structure powers.


Slight correction here. You do gain all powers available, however it is limited to one region they control. So it could be the home or
(Box 2 spoiler)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
the colony, but not both.

 
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j n
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"During your turn, you may give a reputation token to another player in order to gain all the benefits and powers present in one region they control until the end of your turn. The receiving player must accept or refuse, and no other tokens, goods, currency, or cards may be exchanged."

The only reason you'd have to have a ship in that region would be to use a power that requires a ship in that region. (It does only apply to powers from one region they control, in case they might gain control of more somehow).
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Becq Starforged
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mcs1213 wrote:
Slight correction here. You do gain all powers available, however it is limited to one region they control. So it could be the home or
(Box 2 spoiler)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
the colony, but not both.


You're right; I misread that. One region it is!

Hm. We have yet to make use of that rule, and this makes it marginally less valuable...
 
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Scott McKay
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I searched out this thread rather than posting the same question. The example in the rules makes it seem like Red can use the power of Yellow's home port by paying a rep, without needing to have a ship there, because if Red had to sail there, why wouldn't he just sail to his own home harbor with a port???

I know it doesn't make sense. Could have used a better example.
 
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Tim Neppel
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What they are talking about in the example is the actual PORT building... which is 10 gold, discounted by spice. The given example is used to show he is saving an "action" by paying a REP and therefore not having to use the builder's guild Repair action.

This is still a fairly poor example, as you say, for a couple reasons. Red still has to sail his ship to Yellow's harbor... where it is now exposed and vulnerable to attack (Yellow could theoretically sink it for just 1 enmity, being the controller of the region.) But also... THERE IS NO YELLOW! The game design obviously went through some color scheme changes... the Yellow player appears to have been changed to Purple... but all the example text still uses Yellow like it is an actual province color. Poor job of editing, IMHO.
 
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Becq Starforged
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Darth Gamer wrote:
I searched out this thread rather than posting the same question. The example in the rules makes it seem like Red can use the power of Yellow's home port by paying a rep, without needing to have a ship there, because if Red had to sail there, why wouldn't he just sail to his own home harbor with a port???

I know it doesn't make sense. Could have used a better example.

You don't need to have a ship present in order to offer reputation for use of an opponent's powers. But if it's accepted, you still have to follow the rules for those powers. In this case, the Port states that it only affects ships that "end a sail order in this region" (ie, the location of the Port).

The main reason it's important that you don't need a ship present to make the reputation transaction is to allow you to lock in your access to those powers before committing to an action that would otherwise be wasted. Using this example, it would suck if you had to sail to your opponent's harbor before even making the exchange -- and if he refused, then you'd have lost a turn. With the rules as they are, you can negotiate, then decide where to sail having already locked in the deal until the end of the turn.
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Bob Uncle
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Hi all, hope someone can answer this quickly, we have a marathon session on Sunday.

What exactly counts as a power in a region?

Are appellations power? Can I use someone else's appellation?

How about tablets?

How about ships? When discussing raiding, the game says that ships in the region affect the dice pool. So ships are technically in a region. Can I use someone else's ship to support an endeavour?

(Box I dunno, but later on)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Can I get the benefit of relics on the ship?


Or is it JUST buildings and specific island powers?

Thanks!
 
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Becq Starforged
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I assume you're asking in regards to using reputation to borrow powers?

A province is a region; if you choose that region you are allowed to use any powers attached to the province itself. This includes the repair symbol and the text of any structures. It does not include ship upgrades, items in the treasury, goods, advisor powers, appellations, or anything else that is not a power built into the province.

The term "region" is defined in the glossary; it's an area of land.
(Box 2)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
A colony is a region, and counts as a separate region from the rest of the island. If you borrow the powers of a colony, you get the powers of the colony and structure, if present (and only if the colony is active).


Note that you do not have to be present when you make the offer, but the owner decides whether or not to accept. So if you want to use someone's repair symbol, for example, you should settle the offer before moving your ship there!
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Bob Uncle
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Thank you for your prompt reply. Yes, I'm talking about reputation tokens.

Just to clarify the idea that's cropped up in the group...

The rules say you give a rep token and you can get all powers present in a region.

Have we established that it applies to all powers granted by the region, even if the power is not isolated TO the region, including the guild hall and...

(Box I dunno, one of the last ones)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The big expensive temple that you get from one of the colonies?


The sticking point for us is that a ship is present in a region, and the ship has powers. Therefore, since you can use all powers present in a region, you should be able to use a ship. And the same for tablets in your home province. Buildings are built on your province board, and you can use those powers, even if they're not specific to the region (ie, guild hall), so why not tablets?

Thanks again. I'm just trying to be thorough, so we can consider the matter settled in our group.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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A ship is present in a region, but it is not a power that the region contains.

Tablets, I would say the main reason you can't use those is that they are once-per-game abilities, and it'd be weird to make it so an opponent can lock you out of your own ability, or for opponents to infinitely use something you could only use once.

Tablets are about in the same brain area for me as advisors, in that they both seem equally weird to think you could use somebody else's by paying reputation.

Ship upgrades I think you could make an argument for (because they are most similar to structures), but officially I believe they don't count.
 
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Becq Starforged
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You gain "all powers present in the region". So what powers are "in the region"?

A building is in the region, and grants a continuous power. You can use that power through reputation.

I'm reasonably sure that a ship is in a space, and a region is also in a space, but a ship in the same space as a region is not in any region. It can specifically affect a region in the same space. Therefore I don't see why you'd be able to use any powers granted by ships through reputation. That said, I can't think of any upgrades that offer powers that could be useful to borrow, as doing so would still only benefit the upgraded ship.

An advisor is perhaps technically in the region, but only grants a power after being activated during the owner's turn. You don't gain control over the advisors and can't activate them, even with reputation. Since you can only give reputation this way during your turn, and since another player's advisors are only active for their turn, there's no way to use reputation to borrow the power of another player's advisor.

(Box 3)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
A tablet also needs to be activated for it's power to be used (refer to the tablets themselves), so the same rules apply as for advisors.


 
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