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Game of Thrones: The Iron Throne» Forums » Rules

Subject: Drawing cards for releasing hostages. rss

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Randall Barnes
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I know I can release a hostage at the start of a turn to draw a card, but if I'm forced to release a hostage because of a card (Baratheon?) do I still get to draw?
 
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Anthony Rubbo
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We've been playing that you do. My guess is that if you didn't it would have different language, like return hostage to owner's hand or some such.
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Witold G
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The abilities use two different wordings: "release a hostage" and "discard a hostage". The rulebook does not contain any reference to "discarding" a hostage.

I think it would make sense to treat any abilities referring to:

1). Releasing a hostage - just like it's described in the rulebook.

Rulebook p. 09, "Hostages" section:
"Releasing a Hostage: When a player releases a hostage, they return
the card to the original owner's hand. After doing so, they draw
one card from their own house deck."


2). Discarding a hostage - just like any discard, i.e. place the card in the original owner's discard pile, with no additional rewards or penalties to anyone.

One tiny problem with this theory is that the below article seems to use words "release" and "discard" interchangeably, but it wouldn't be the first time FFG news article is contradictory with the actual rulebook...
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/11/3/taken-h...


Cards for reference:



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I'd say no. It's Davos releasing the hostage not the player who he is releasing them from. The usual release is meant to represent ransoming or something of that nature. This is Davos spiriting the hostage away. He gets the reward not the player. Melisandre's is just a souped up torment with extra blood magic.
 
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James David Romo
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FrankOkeenan wrote:
I'd say no. It's Davos releasing the hostage not the player who he is releasing them from. The usual release is meant to represent ransoming or something of that nature. This is Davos spiriting the hostage away. He gets the reward not the player. Melisandre's is just a souped up torment with extra blood magic.


So say player A is Davos. Player B has a hostage from Player C.

Player A uses Davos' ability to release player B's hostage back to Player C. What's the outcome?

1) This counts as a regular release + a benefit for Davos. Player B draws a card for releasing the hostage. Player C gets hostage back in hand. Player A takes a card form discard.

2) This counts as a special release from Davos + a benefit for Davos. Player A draws a card for the release, and takes a card from the discard into hand. Player C gets hostage back in hand. Player B just loses the hostage and nothing more.

3) This counts as a special release from Davos instead of a normal one. Player A takes a card from the discard into hand. Player C gets hostage back in hand. Player B just loses the hostage and nothing more.

My instinct is to say situation 1 happens -- Davos is forcing player B to release the hostage. Still, it is player B to release the hostage. As a side benefit Davos gets a card and endears himself to Player C. Player B might be annoyed but still gets a card.

If not that, I would say #2. "Release" means specifically a hostage is returned to a player's hand and they releaser draws a card. Then there is a separate sentence that denotes Davos gets an additional benefit on top of that. Player B ends up getting shafted in this scenario and it is a huge boon for Davos.

And someone would have to convince me option #3 would be the correct answer. I just can't see it. It may be the intention of the designers but I don't see how you can say the hostage is released but you prevent the drawing of the card. Maybe if the card said "... release a non-baratheon hostage. Instead of drawing a card, take a card from your discard into your hand."
 
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Hey there.

I think this needs an official ruling because it is not 100% clear. Having said that, I'm not convinced by the "player gets shafted" argument. That's kind of the point. If you compare this to other leader powers this is still relatively gentle. It only rolls around every so often on Davos' turn and you can see it coming and decide if you want to release and gain a benefit rather than risk Davos doing it for you. That's the gamble you have to make. It can also be a point of negotiation.

Support me this turn or I'll steal that hostage from under your nose.
 
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Anthony Rubbo
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Unless we think there's a sharp disconnect between the intent of the designers and the written rules, I do not see any option other than 1).
 
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Quote:
Each player has an alien power that allows him or her to break
certain game rules. In any case where game rules conflict with
an alien power, the power takes precedence.


Obviously that is from Cosmic Encounter but the same principle is implied in The Iron Throne.

Quote:
During setup, each player
chooses a leader, and each
leader has an important
ability that can substantially
alter how each player plays
the game.


If you're still not convinced I guess this needs an official ruling.
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Confirmed

Rules Question:
A number of character cards/abilities allow you to release hostages. Davos'Smuggler, Catelyn's Heart of Stone and Jorah's Sworn to Protect. In each of these cases does the player releasing the hostages get the normal benefit from releasing a hostage?

Answer:
None of those abilities will give the hostage releaser a reward for releasing a hostage. Hope that helps.
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Dane Beltrami
Game Developer
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Anthony Rubbo
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Oof. So there indeed was a sharp disconnect. That isn't an example of a cosmic ability breaking a rule, that is an example of extremely poor wording.

It would be like if an ability read "draw a card" and the intent was for you to whip out a pen and show your artistic abilities.
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James David Romo
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FrankOkeenan wrote:
Confirmed

Rules Question:
A number of character cards/abilities allow you to release hostages. Davos'Smuggler, Catelyn's Heart of Stone and Jorah's Sworn to Protect. In each of these cases does the player releasing the hostages get the normal benefit from releasing a hostage?

Answer:
None of those abilities will give the hostage releaser a reward for releasing a hostage. Hope that helps.
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Dane Beltrami
Game Developer


Ok, so which of the three scenarios happen in relation to Davos's ability?
(I don't know if 'releaser' is the person who is losing a hostage or the person triggering the release of a hostage)

1. Davos gets a card from his discard + player who had a hostage forcibly released draws a card

2. Davos gets a card from his discard + draws a card since he released another player's hostage -- and when you release a hostage you draw a card

3. Davos gets a card from his discard and nothing else happens -- no card is drawn for the release.
 
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Anthony Rubbo
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Seems like 3).
 
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James David Romo
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Alright, yeah if that's the case I'll just have to take their word for it that that is their intention. It seemed like to me that Release is a specific term/action that means "When a player releases a hostage, they return the card to the original owner’s hand. After doing so, they draw one card from their own house deck."

Unless that release is a special thing that only occurs during the start of a turn -- any other case of release that occurs at any other time simply means put the card back in the original owner's hand and nothing else... unless the card says other effects trigger.

So essentially in regards to hostages when a card says release or discard both just tell you where the hostage is headed -- a player's hand or their discard. They don't give you any intrinsic benefit... unless that release is happening as part of the normal start of turn process. That type of release will draw a card for the "releaser".

If that sounds right, then I think I understand.
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Renaud Verlaque
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Yes, I agree with this last interpretation.
 
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