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1846: The Race for the Midwest» Forums » Rules

Subject: A load of questions regarding money flow, Steamboats, train limits and routes rss

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Brett Cizmar
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Hello, I'm new to 18xx and this game is awesome! However a few questions,
where does money go in these scenarios?
i. when private companies/independent RRs are purchased at the beginning of the game
ii. money spent to lay tiles

I just assumed in both these scenarios the money goes back to the bank.

iii. purchasing private companies from players

the player who sold the private company does receive this money right?

iv. during 6.7 revenue for companies is taken from the bank correct?



are train limits for the total amount of trains a player owns or for trains a player owns bought from that specific phase?


So for example if i had 3 yellow trains and one green train, am I maxed out in phase 2? Or could I have 4 yellow trains and 4 green trains? in phase 4 can I have 2 brown trains and 2 grey trains?

are the 3p: 5x, 6p: 6x, 7p:7x labels on the map saying thats how many train cards are available for purchase from the bank depending on player count?


Can the steamboats ability be used as many times as I want? If so, could I move it for one route of my trains then shift it for another route in one operations round?

I make this assumption because it says "shifted" while meat packing company says placed. It is also says " Any extra tile lays, extra tile upgrade, and token
laying abilities of Private Companies can be used at any time while
their purchasing corporation is operating (not just in the tile and
token step). " in 6.93.

In the case of the meat packing company I assume its ability can only be used once and after it is placed it remains there for the remainder of the game.

Does a route need to start in a city?

What constitutes a city?

Now this being said, is a location like "St.Louis" or "Buffalo" a city? It is stated in the rules cities are places with large white dots.

How do we count cities while travelling routes?
Is the counting started at the city we depart from or from the first city we reach? For example travelling from Detroit -> Toledo -> Fort Wayne? Would this be 3 or 2?


Sorry for all the questions, but it avoids debates off misinterpretations of rules. I always find myself doing this with GMT games which is probably inevitable because the games are usually fairly complex .
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Eric Brosius
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Welcome, Brett!

soggycardboard wrote:
Hello, I'm new to 18xx and this game is awesome! However a few questions,
where does money go in these scenarios?
i. when private companies/independent RRs are purchased at the beginning of the game
ii. money spent to lay tiles

To the bank, as you thought.

Quote:
iii. purchasing private companies from players

the player who sold the private company does receive this money right?

Right.

Quote:
iv. during 6.7 revenue for companies is taken from the bank correct?

Correct.

Quote:
are train limits for the total amount of trains a player owns or for trains a player owns bought from that specific phase?

For the total numer of trains a corporation owns. Note that any phased out trains do not count toward the train limit, so that (for example) if your corporation owns three yellow trains and a green train when Phase III starts and the train limit drops to 3, you could still buy 1 or even 2 brown trains and still comply with the train limit.

Quote:
are the 3p: 5x, 6p: 6x, 7p:7x labels on the map saying thats how many train cards are available for purchase from the bank depending on player count?

I think you have some typos there, but in general yes. This games scales to the number of players: you remove some companies with fewer than 5 players and then you remove some trains as well (if you didn't, there would be "too many" trains, which is why the designer did this. One non-obvious feature of 18xx design is that getting the number of trains of various types wrong, even by a little, can be a big problem.)

Quote:
Can the steamboats ability be used as many times as I want? If so, could I move it for one route of my trains then shift it for another route in one operations round?
I make this assumption because it says "shifted" while meat packing company says placed. It is also says " Any extra tile lays, extra tile upgrade, and token laying abilities of Private Companies can be used at any time while
their purchasing corporation is operating (not just in the tile and
token step). " in 6.93.

Yes, Steamboat is special, but only to a limited extent. In general, it can move its token at the start of each OR, during the Private Company incme phase. So usually you get to use it only once an OR (for the company to which you assigned it.) However, you can also reassign and move its token at the moment at which your corporation buys it from a player. So in that OR it can be used twice. Note also that Steamboat, unlike every other private, can assign its token and thus benefit a company while still owned by a player.

Quote:
In the case of the meat packing company I assume its ability can only be used once and after it is placed it remains there for the remainder of the game.

Almost correct. It remains there till Phase IV begins, at which point the Meat and Steamboat tokens go away. Only the power of the Mail lasts in Phase IV (as long as it is owned by a corporation when the other privates go away at the start of Phase III.) The idea is that you can move boats, but you can't move meat packing plants.

Quote:
Does a route need to start in a city?

Yes, or a red off-board area.

Quote:
What constitutes a city?

One of the white circles or collection of adjacent white circles -- either printed on the map (like Centralia or Erie or the two touching white circles printed on the map for Detroit) or printed on a tile.

Quote:
Now this being said, is a location like "St.Louis" or "Buffalo" a city? It is stated in the rules cities are places with large white dots.

Those are red off-board locations. They are very much like cities, and count like cities for route running.

Quote:
How do we count cities while travelling routes?
Is the counting started at the city we depart from or from the first city we reach? For example travelling from Detroit -> Toledo -> Fort Wayne? Would this be 3 or 2?

That would be 3. Or Buffalo -> Erie -> Cleveland would be 3, because Buffalo is counted just as a city would be. Check the extended example of play, which illustrates this.

Quote:
Sorry for all the questions, but it avoids debates off misinterpretations of rules. I always find myself doing this with GMT games which is probably inevitable because the games are usually fairly complex .

We're happy to help!
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Occu Pant
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Eric Brosius wrote:
Welcome, Brett!
soggycardboard wrote:
...
are train limits for the total amount of trains a player owns or for trains a player owns bought from that specific phase?

For the total numer of trains a corporation owns. Note that any phased out trains do not count toward the train limit, so that (for example) if your corporation owns three yellow trains and a green train when Phase III starts and the train limit drops to 3, you could still buy 1 or even 2 brown trains and still comply with the train limit. (In this example you could run all 5 trains in your next OR before the yellow trains vanish, unless Phase IV starts and removes the yellow trains instantly.)

Can you explain this one step by step? Not seeing how a company could be train tight and still somehow buy a brown before the yellow trains vanished.
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Dave Eisen
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soggycardboard wrote:



are train limits for the total amount of trains a player owns or for trains a player owns bought from that specific phase?


Players don't own trains, corporations do. The limit is how many each corporation can own. It's not how many they can have of each color.
 
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TonyKR
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Paladin82Y wrote:
Eric Brosius wrote:
Welcome, Brett!
soggycardboard wrote:
...
are train limits for the total amount of trains a player owns or for trains a player owns bought from that specific phase?

For the total numer of trains a corporation owns. Note that any phased out trains do not count toward the train limit, so that (for example) if your corporation owns three yellow trains and a green train when Phase III starts and the train limit drops to 3, you could still buy 1 or even 2 brown trains and still comply with the train limit. (In this example you could run all 5 trains in your next OR before the yellow trains vanish, unless Phase IV starts and removes the yellow trains instantly.)

Can you explain this one step by step? Not seeing how a company could be train tight and still somehow buy a brown before the yellow trains vanished.

Yeah, I think Eric's example is slightly off. The general gist is there, though.

For his example to work, the company would need to have 2 yellows and 1 green AND be the one triggering Phase III by purchasing a brown. At the time of the purchase, the limit is 4. With the purchase of the brown, Phase III begins and the limit is now 3. The 2 yellows are "tapped" and don't count towards the train limit (but get to run once more due to 46's phase out rules). The company now only has 2 "real" trains (1 green, 1 brown) and has the ability to purchase another brown. If it does, it gets to run all 5 trains on its next OR, after which the yellows are removed.

Unless, as Eric mentions, Phase IV begins before the company gets to run again, since Phase IV fully removes phased out yellows if still in play.
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Eric Brosius
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Paladin82Y wrote:
Eric Brosius wrote:
Welcome, Brett!
soggycardboard wrote:
...
are train limits for the total amount of trains a player owns or for trains a player owns bought from that specific phase?

For the total numer of trains a corporation owns. Note that any phased out trains do not count toward the train limit, so that (for example) if your corporation owns three yellow trains and a green train when Phase III starts and the train limit drops to 3, you could still buy 1 or even 2 brown trains and still comply with the train limit. (In this example you could run all 5 trains in your next OR before the yellow trains vanish, unless Phase IV starts and removes the yellow trains instantly.)

Can you explain this one step by step? Not seeing how a company could be train tight and still somehow buy a brown before the yellow trains vanished

It would have to be a different corporation that bought the brown train, so yes, I was wrong. I'll fix it.
 
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Tom Lehmann
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soggycardboard wrote:
where does money go when private companies/independent RRs are purchased at the beginning of the game

To the bank, with the exception of the Independent RRs.

Their list prices form their initial treasuries (as detailed in 3.1, GMT rules), so this money goes from their owners' cash to the Independent's treasuries (put it under each Independent's train). Their debts are paid to the bank, so that money goes from their owners' cash to the bank.

(If the list price of an Independent RR is reduced per 3.22, then you do the same steps, except that the bank makes up the difference so that this Independent still starts with its full treasury amount.)

Some players, for convenience, will pay the entire amount -- list price plus debt -- to the bank and then have the bank pay into the Independents' treasuries. Do whatever works best for your group.
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Brett Cizmar
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Thanks that just about covers everything! Except i'm still a little confused on steamboats.

Quote:
Can the steamboats ability be used as many times as I want? If so, could I move it for one route of my trains then shift it for another route in one operations round?
I make this assumption because it says "shifted" while meat packing company says placed. It is also says " Any extra tile lays, extra tile upgrade, and token laying abilities of Private Companies can be used at any time while
their purchasing corporation is operating (not just in the tile and
token step). " in 6.93.

Quote:
Yes, Steamboat is special, but only to a limited extent. In general, it can move its token at the start of each OR, during the Private Company incme phase. So usually you get to use it only once an OR (for the company to which you assigned it.) However, you can also reassign and move its token at the moment at which your corporation buys it from a player. So in that OR it can be used twice. Note also that Steamboat, unlike every other private, can assign its token and thus benefit a company while still owned by a player.


So to be clear, a corporation owning the steamboat can only shift it once per operating round.
Because if not here's an example scenario. Baltimore and Ohio owns Steamboat Co.. B&O have the token for steamboats in St.Louis. At the beginning of OR1 for B&O, they decide to shift that token to Wheeling. They then run a route with one train from Wheeling to Pittsburgh. They then shift the Steamboat token again to Toledo. B&O then run a route with it's second train from Wheeling to Toledo. Is this legal?
 
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Tom Lehmann
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soggycardboard wrote:
Is this legal?

No.

Note that the port marker is a *marker*, not a token. 6.93 does not apply to it. Tokens represent stations or depots, belong to RR Corporations (and Independent RRs), and are used to establish connections for tile and token laying purposes, to run routes, and, sometimes, to block other corporations from tracing connections and/or running routes. The Meat-Packing or Steamboat markers may not be used for any of these purposes.

Eric's reply to you above re: the Steamboat Co, using "token" instead of "marker", was speaking loosely and not precisely.
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Brett Cizmar
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Thanks for the clarification Tom your game is awesome!
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So the steamboat marker can be moved once in the private income stage of each OR, by either the owning player or company, and also moved once when it is first bought by a company?

Or can it only be shifted at the start of an OR when owned by a company, and when owned by a player simply placed (and assigned)? Or can the assignment be moved in the private income stage too (this seems a stretch)?
 
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Mike Anastasia
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lamaros wrote:
So the steamboat marker can be moved once in the private income stage of each OR, by either the owning player or company, and also moved once when it is first bought by a company?
Yes.

The steamboat marker may be moved during the private income stage of every OR until the steamboat company closes, by either the steamboat's player owner or the steamboat's corporate owner's president, depending on which of those states it is in. It may also be moved by its corporate owner's president immediately upon passing from a player owner into a corporation.
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Tom Lehmann
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lamaros wrote:
So the steamboat marker can be moved once in the private income stage of each OR, by [the owning player of that company], and also moved [after] it is bought by a [RR corporation]?

Your wording was conflating "company" (as in Private Company) and "corporation" (as in RR Corporation).
 
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
lamaros wrote:
So the steamboat marker can be moved once in the private income stage of each OR, by [the owning player of that company], and also moved [after] it is bought by a [RR corporation]?

Your wording was conflating "company" (as in Private Company) and "corporation" (as in RR Corporation).


Aye that was lax, it was late.

The player owning the company can only assign the marker once though right?
 
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Tom Lehmann
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lamaros wrote:
The player but owning the company can only assign the marker once though right?

No. A player who owns the Steamboat Co can assign the port marker once per round during the Private Company step.

A Corporation that owns the Steamboat Co can shift (or place) the marker immediately upon purchase and, in subsequent rounds, shift it before running its routes.

So, a player with the GT, MS, MC, and Steamboat CO could assign it to the MS during OR 1, placing the port marker in Toledo to add to the MS's route; then in OR 2 after the GT buys in the MC, lays to Holland, and buys a train, this player could reassign it to the GT and shift it to Holland (but the MS wouldn't get a second use of the port marker in Toledo since this happens during the Private Co step before Independents run). Then, the GT could run to Holland and the port marker and pay out.

In OR 3, the player could reassign the marker back to the MS and shift the port marker back to Toledo, letting the MS run to Toledo and the port marker, then the GT on its OR turn could purchase the Steamboat Co before running routes and shift the port marker back to Holland and run to Holland and the port marker again, pay out, and buy in the MS. (This is the run the port marker by two different entities in one OR case mentioned in the notes.)

Finally, in OR4, assuming Phase III haven't occurred before the GT runs, the GT could shift the port marker back to Toledo (in anticipation of Phase III) before running its routes. Once Phase III happens, the port marker can no longer be shifted. In Phase IV, it vanishes.

I realize the wording on p12 isn't quite precise enough: it should say, "Upon being purchased and/or before running routes" instead of "After being purchased". That's what the DTG rules say, but when collapsing the two marker cases into one paragraph during the GMT rules rewrite, I didn't quite capture all the nuances. Sorry about that.

It's on the edit list. Once rules questions settle down a bit more, I hope to make a final pass incorporating these minor word-smithing changes and then to put a 1.1 version up in the file section.

So far, we're looking at ~5 minor italics, capitalization, and spelling nits; two word-smithing improvements, and two chart errors (one due to the #8-->#9 tile swap that happened during production). Not bad for a complete rewrite.
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
lamaros wrote:
The player but owning the company can only assign the marker once though right?

No. A player who owns the Steamboat Co can assign the port marker once per round during the Private Company step.

A Corporation that owns the Steamboat Co can shift (or place) the marker immediately upon purchase and, in subsequent rounds, shift it before running its routes.

So, a player with the GT, MS, MC, and Steamboat CO could assign it to the MS during OR 1, placing the port marker in Toledo to add to the MS's route; then in OR 2 after the GT buys in the MC, lays to Holland, and buys a train, this player could reassign it to the GT and shift it to Holland (but the MS wouldn't get a second use of the port marker in Toledo since this happens during the Private Co step before Independents run). Then, the GT could run to Holland and the port marker and pay out.

In OR 3, the player could reassign the marker back to the MS and shift the port marker back to Toledo, letting the MS run to Toledo and the port marker, then the GT on its OR turn could purchase the Steamboat Co before running routes and shift the port marker back to Holland and run to Holland and the port marker again, pay out, and buy in the MS. (This is the run the port marker by two different entities in one OR case mentioned in the notes.)

Finally, in OR4, assuming Phase III haven't occurred before the GT runs, the GT could shift the port marker back to Toledo (in anticipation of Phase III) before running its routes. Once Phase III happens, the port marker can no longer be shifted. In Phase IV, it vanishes.

I realize the wording on p12 isn't quite precise enough: it should say, "Upon being purchased and/or before running routes" instead of "After being purchased". That's what the DTG rules say, but when collapsing the two marker cases into one paragraph during the GMT rules rewrite, I didn't quite capture all the nuances. Sorry about that.

It's on the edit list. Once rules questions settle down a bit more, I hope to make a final pass incorporating these minor word-smithing changes and then to put a 1.1 version up in the file section.

So far, we're looking at ~5 minor italics, capitalization, and spelling nits; two word-smithing improvements, and two chart errors (one due to the #8-->#9 tile swap that happened during production). Not bad for a complete rewrite.


Much appreciated Tom. I think aside from being able to re-assign the marker as your describe the rest would be the natural assumption of the existing wording for most people.

Pedant points: A corp can shift the port market before running routes as you say, or during the private company step? This would seem to have implications about the possible actions of corps before the steam boat owning corp in the operation stage?

I also assume this means that if phase III happens before the steam boat is bought in to a corp then the assigned marker will remain with the corp it was on (if it was assigned to an independent they both go bye bye) at that point?

Ie: The assigned marker remains until the steam boat company is bought in to a corp, or phase IV, whichever comes first?

Summary:

1. In the private company stage, if the steam boat company is owned by a player that player may,

a) Assign/re-assign the steam boat marker to a corp or independent company.
b) Place/move the steam boat port marker.

2. Before running routes if the steam boat company is owned by a corporation the president of that corp may,

a) Shift the steam boat port marker.

3. When the steam boat company is bought in to a corp the following happens,

a) Any assigned steam boat company marker is removed.
b) The owning corp may place/move the steam boat port marker.

4. When phase III starts the steam boat company is removed from the game, but all markers remain.

a) If the steam boat company was owned by a corp that corp gains a steam boat company marker at this point.

5. When phase IV starts the steam boat company ceases to have any impact upon the game.
 
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Tom Lehmann
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lamaros wrote:
A corp can shift the port market before running routes as you say, or during the private company step?

Incorrect. A *player* owning the Steamboat Co shifts it during the Private Co. step (because that's when Private Cos act). A Corp shifts it upon purchasing it or before the run routes step.

Quote:
I also assume this means that if phase III happens before the steam boat is bought in to a corp then the assigned marker will remain with the corp it was on (if it was assigned to an independent they both go bye bye) at that point?

Incorrect. If the Private Co hasn't been purchased by a Corp by phase III, it (and its markers) is removed. Just like if the C&WI isn't bought and used by the time Phase III occurs, the C&WI's reservation goes away. Just like the Mail Contract goes away if it hasn't been bought by Phase III. If you want to keep their properties, buy them in.

Quote:
1. In the private company stage, if the steam boat company is owned by a player that player may,

a) Assign/re-assign the steam boat marker to a corp or independent company.
b) Place/move the steam boat port marker.

2. Before running routes if the steam boat company is owned by a corporation the president of that corp may,

a) Shift the steam boat port marker.

3. When the steam boat company is bought in to a corp the following happens,

a) Any assigned steam boat company marker is removed.
b) The owning corp may place/move the steam boat port marker.

Correct.

Quote:
4. When phase III starts the steam boat company is removed from the game, but all markers remain.

a) If the steam boat company was owned by a corp that corp gains a steam boat company marker at this point.

Both incorrect. See above.

Quote:
5. When phase IV starts the steam boat company ceases to have any impact upon the game.

The Steam Boat *Company* ceased to have any effects in phase III. Its certificate is *in the box* before Phase IV occurs.
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Wait, what?

You're saying that the steam boat markers only remain if the company was bought by a corp? How is that a logical inference from the rules, given the other special powers of the steam boat?

Also isn't the following always true?

If the steam boat company was owned by a corp that corp gains a steam boat company marker at the start of phase III to indicate it has use of the steam boat port marker, until phase IV when both are removed.
 
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
lamaros wrote:
A corp can shift the port market before running routes as you say, or during the private company step?

Incorrect. A *player* owning the Steamboat Co shifts it during the Private Co. step (because that's when Private Cos act). A Corp shifts it upon purchasing it or before the run routes step.


Hmm, I may have missed something here. Don't corps still gain private income for owned companies in the private income step? Wouldn't the natural inference be that this is when the steam boat power would apply?

Edit, ah: "At any time during these steps, a corporation may buy one or
more Private Companies and/or exercise the abilities of purchased
Private Companies."

Got it. So it could actually move the port marker after running routes too/instead. I assume this means I could move the port, run the trains, then move the port again, given the above quote nor company text specifies a limit to the number of times you can use the power of the private.

Confused myself, see Tom below.

Quote:
Quote:
I also assume this means that if phase III happens before the steam boat is bought in to a corp then the assigned marker will remain with the corp it was on (if it was assigned to an independent they both go bye bye) at that point?

Incorrect. If the Private Co hasn't been purchased by a Corp by phase III, it (and its markers) is removed. Just like if the C&WI isn't bought and used by the time Phase III occurs, the C&WI's reservation goes away. Just like the Mail Contract goes away if it hasn't been bought by Phase III. If you want to keep their properties, buy them in.


This makes sense for all other companies, but given the Steam Boat Company has specific exceptions to use its power to place and assign markers before being owned by a corp, it seems a reasonably inference to assume that would act differently in accordance with that special power.

Quote:
Quote:
4. When phase III starts the steam boat company is removed from the game, but all markers remain.

a) If the steam boat company was owned by a corp that corp gains a steam boat company marker at this point.

Both incorrect. See above.

Quote:
5. When phase IV starts the steam boat company ceases to have any impact upon the game.

The Steam Boat *Company* ceased to have any effects in phase III. Its certificate is *in the box* before Phase IV occurs.


Yes, but its markers remain, and it's the power of the company that invests/invested those markers with significance. Therefore it has an impact upon the game. If we're going to be super pedantic on this point doesn't the rules text on the company, that you "add $20 per port symbol to all routes run to this location by the owning (or assigned) company" become meaningless when it's in the box, therefore the markers would become meaningless, therefore there would be no distinction between phase III and phase IV.

Effectively what the exception (under 3.1) of the steam boat company seem to be is to place/move and assign its markers before being bought in to a corporation. Given that they are placed and assigned, it's hard to know what the magical distinction, in the rules, is between this happening via player ownership and it happening via corporation ownership - if seems that they are still placed and assigned with equal consequence to the game.

Therefore absent some exception that says "markers placed and assigned due to player ownership of the steam boat company are removed at the beginning of stage III, unless the company has since been purchased by a corporation" I thought it reasonable that they weren't.

Now, perhaps I'm missing something in the rules interaction that makes the above implicit, but I can't find it beyond your clarifications in this thread. All I can find seems to indicate my reading, given:

3.1 "Exceptions: The Steamboat Company’s ability can be used before being purchased"
9. "Phase III: Remove Private Companies (but not markers)"

I appreciate you might think I'm being pedantic or obtuse, but the rules for this company were unclear to me.
 
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lamaros wrote:
You're saying that the steam boat markers only remain if the company was bought by a corp? How is that a logical inference from the rules

Because that's what the rules say. ***Private Companies are removed by phase III***. This is stated multiple times, in 3.1, in 6.91, and in 6.93.

Yes, you get to use the Steamboat Company's *ability* before it is purchased by a corporation. That does not mean that it persists beyond Phase III. Don't confuse the ability with the item itself.

The Meat Packing Company and Steamboat Company markers -- if owned by a *corporation* -- remain once phase III occurs. The Mail Contract -- if owned by a *corporation* -- remains once phase III occurs. Otherwise, they go in the box.
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
lamaros wrote:
You're saying that the steam boat markers only remain if the company was bought by a corp? How is that a logical inference from the rules

Because that's what the rules say. ***Private Companies are removed by phase III***. This is stated multiple times, in 3.1, in 6.91, and in 6.93.

Yes, you get to use the Steamboat Company's *ability* before it is purchased by a corporation. That does not mean that it somehow magically persists beyond Phase III. Don't confuse the ability with the item itself.

The Meat Packing Company and Steamboat Company markers -- if owned by a *corporation* -- remain once phase III occurs. The Mail Contract -- if owned by a *corporation* -- remain once phase III occurs. Otherwise, they go in the box.


Where in the rules does it say this?

Quote:
The Meat Packing Company and Steamboat Company markers -- if owned by a *corporation* -- remain once phase III occurs.


It explicitly states the point re the mail comp (3.1 "the Mail Contract, once purchased by a corporation, is not later removed"), and the meat packing company cannot place markers unless owned by a corp, so that is implicit.

But 9. explicitly states "Remove Private Companies (but not markers)" (my bold)

So, given the steam boat is a special case and can place markers before being owned by a corp it is not explained in the rules, that I can see, that these marker placements don't count.

I take your point about this being intention of the rules, but I can't see this as being a logical inference from the RAW unless I'm blind (possible)?

Edit: I'm just trying to get clarity on this, as I feel like it's a misinterpretation of your intention that others could also readily make.

Edit2: I should also state that I greatly appreciate you taking the time and effort to try and set this straight, and that the rules are otherwise of excellent clarity and expression!
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lamaros wrote:
Edit, ah: "At any time during these steps, a corporation may buy one or more Private Companies and/or exercise the abilities of purchased Private Companies."

Got it. So it could actually move the port marker after running routes too/instead. I assume this means I could move the port, run the trains, then move the port again, given the above quote nor company text specifies a limit to the number of times you can use the power of the private.

Incorrect.

I already said, in my earlier message above, that the specific wording for Meat Packing and Steamboat Company should have included "before running routes". I apologized for that wording oversight.

If an explanation and an apology is not good enough for you, then I think we're done here.
 
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
lamaros wrote:
Edit, ah: "At any time during these steps, a corporation may buy one or more Private Companies and/or exercise the abilities of purchased Private Companies."

Got it. So it could actually move the port marker after running routes too/instead. I assume this means I could move the port, run the trains, then move the port again, given the above quote nor company text specifies a limit to the number of times you can use the power of the private.

Incorrect.

I already said, in my earlier message above, that the specific wording for Meat Packing and Steamboat Company should have included "before running routes". I apologized for that wording oversight.

If an explanation and an apology is not good enough for you, then I think we're done here.


No of course that's good enough.

I was just trying to locate the point in the rules that explained the timing of the private powers under corp ownership and momentarily forgot that clarification for the steam boat company...
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I've penciled in "(or removed)" to the end of the "Before the Steamboat Company is purchased..." paragraph on p12 in my personal copy and added it to the edit list. Thanks for your feedback.
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
I've penciled in "(or removed)" to the end of the "Before the Steamboat Company is purchased..." paragraph on p12 in my personal copy and added it to the edit list. Thanks for your feedback.


Thanks for your patience Tom.

Thinking things through narratively your intention makes a lot of sense - who is operating the steam boat if the company closed before a corporation acquired it, even if their assigned partner remains? - but I felt the rules allow this misreading, and it was the one I has assumed.

I think your noted modification should make this clear. Another simple point of clarity on this could be to modify the Phase III statement on 9. from,

Quote:
Remove Private Companies (but not markers), except the Mail Contract (provided it is owned by a corporation, not a player).


to

Quote:
Remove Private Companies, except the Mail Contract (provided it is owned by a corporation, not a player).

Retain Markers placed by Private Companies that are/were owned by a corporation.


I hope (!) I'm getting it all correct at clear at this point.
 
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