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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: The Delve - Allies and Bard rss

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Hey guys,

We recently started to play the Delve and we had a few unclear situations that I wanted to ask about.

1) In 1 of the rooms, we got an ally. Do we keep him for our next rooms as well or discard him after that room is over? We decided to discard him, I hope that's right.

2) Does the bard keep his song tokens on the cards between rooms? Since stamina and health aren't regenerating, and the only rule we saw is to remove the tokens from the map, we decided to have him keep his song tokens on the cards. Did we play that right?

Thanks in advance!
 
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Alexander Steinbach
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I have not yet played the delve, but assuming that the rooms are no different from the other quests in the road to legend, then nothing changes when you open a particular door.

So allies and familiars do not despawn, your song tokens remain where they are, you keep all of your damage and stamina, etc. You only perform the things that the app specifically tells you to do (like adding or removing certain tokens or monsters from the map).

Edit: Apparently, my initial assumption was false. See posts below for the correct answer.
 
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Paul
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Each stage is essentially a new quest. Everything goes (the rules specifically refer to special class tokens.) You even have an upgrade phase between the stages. The bard's tokens go away, your friendly NPC (and all familiars) disappear as well.

EDIT: "encounter" is a better word than "quest" above.
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zaltyre wrote:
Each stage is essentially a new quest. Everything goes (the rules specifically refer to special class tokens.) You even have an upgrade phase between the stages. The bard's tokens go away, your friendly NPC (and all familiars) disappear as well.


Thank you for the answer! Can you point me in the direction of where it's written in the rules? I didn't find it anywhere.
 
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Paul
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In the road to legend rules (website) the is a section near the end about the delve. The bottom of the left column and top of the right column talk about the portals, what to do when you go through them, and how to do the upgrade phase.
 
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Erik Burigo
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zaltyre wrote:
Each stage is essentially a new quest. Everything goes (the rules specifically refer to special class tokens.) You even have an upgrade phase between the stages. The bard's tokens go away, your friendly NPC (and all familiars) disappear as well.


But the rules specify that:
Quote:
Nothing remains on the map in between stages, including familiars and special class tokens.


(emphasis mine)

To me this means that class tokens on the map are removed (like traps or images). The rules seem to not mention what happens to class tokens on Class cards (song) or Hero sheets (valor, vision, elixir).
That would be consistent with the transition between encounters in a single quest in "normal" (human Overlord) mode.
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Paul
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You may be right, the bard tokens aren't on the map exactly. On closer inspection I'd agree it could be argued they stay.
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Interesting. Thank you for all the comments guys! Actually the rules you specified are exactly why we weren't sure what to do.

How would you play it? Remove the tokens?
 
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Paul
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I personally think of the transition between stages in the delve like transitions between encounters (but not between quests). Based on that and this from the Nerekhall rulebook:

Song tokens remain on Class cards when the Bard is knocked out, but the tokens and any matching song effects are not active. At the end of an encounter, the Bard returns all song tokens to the supply.

my personal choice would be to return the song tokens to the supply after passing through the portal. FFG may well make a different call if asked, and that wouldn't be outrageous, either.
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Erik Burigo
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GreatOldOne wrote:
Interesting. Thank you for all the comments guys! Actually the rules you specified are exactly why we weren't sure what to do.

How would you play it? Remove the tokens?


I still have to play it, so I'm not aware of the specific messages the app delivers while transitioning from one stage to the upgrade phase.
By reading the rulebook only, unless specific ruling are given during play, I will keep the tokens on Class cards and Hero sheets (harmony, melody, valor, vision, elixir).
I will remove familiars (as indicated by the rulebook), traps and image tokens (as indicated by the rulebook) and - obviously - hex and track tokens (because they are attached to monsters that are going to leave play).
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Bruce
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The delve works as one long quest. Every time you have to do something that isn't standard in a turn you are specifically told to do so.

Note that anything on the map is specifically removed after each stage, which would include allies.
 
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BruceLGL wrote:
The delve works as one long quest. Every time you have to do something that isn't standard in a turn you are specifically told to do so.

Note that anything on the map is specifically removed after each stage, which would include allies.


Alright. What's your opinion about the Bard song tokens?
 
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Bruce
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GreatOldOne wrote:
BruceLGL wrote:
The delve works as one long quest. Every time you have to do something that isn't standard in a turn you are specifically told to do so.

Note that anything on the map is specifically removed after each stage, which would include allies.


Alright. What's your opinion about the Bard song tokens?

They stay. Not on the map, not told to remove.
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Johannes Benedikt
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zaltyre wrote:
I personally think of the transition between stages in the delve like transitions between encounters (but not between quests). Based on that and this from the Nerekhall rulebook:

Song tokens remain on Class cards when the Bard is knocked out, but the tokens and any matching song effects are not active. At the end of an encounter, the Bard returns all song tokens to the supply.

my personal choice would be to return the song tokens to the supply after passing through the portal. FFG may well make a different call if asked, and that wouldn't be outrageous, either.


I think this isn't the way it is supposed to work.

This really isn't like transitions between encounters, because if you transition to the next encounter you recover all fatigue and the heroic feats. On normal difficulty the app specifically tells you to recover a set amount of fatigue (I think it's 2), whereas you don't recover anything on hard difficulty and the app tells you everything you are allowed to do when entering a portal (trading items and search cards for example, which wouldn't be needed if it's just an encounter-transition, because you can do that without the need to specifically tell you). Also you only recover your heroic feat after the first boss and not after each stage and appearantly the app specifically tells you to do so after the first boss. It doesn't tell you "don't regain your heroic feats" after the first stages, which should be there if it's to be assumed that this is just a transition phase.

To sum it up, since the rules don't tell you to put back the bard tokens and they are not on the map, there is no reason to assume that you should do that, especially since there is no comparable thing to passing through these portals in the rules, as I argued.

Furthermore it would really cripple the bard if you need to recast your tokens every few rounds without recovering fatigue. Imo there's a reason they stay on your cards when you are knocked out and that same reason makes it plausible that them staying on your cards isn't imbalanced as long as you don't recover fatigue for free.

All in all, let them stay on the cards.
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