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Subject: Conditional linking and corner exits rss

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Purple TripleCrown
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Really enjoying this game (helps that I'm a huge F1 fan).

Looking to confirm whether we are playing the conditional linking rules correctly.

Assume that an activated car using conditional linking movement is entering a single lane corner that is 3 spaces long, is occupied by 3 cars, and exits onto a 2 lane straight.

The rules are clear that the "pushing car" can choose which lane the cars it is pushing out of the corner exit onto. The rules are also clear that cars that are using conditional linking can form and break pushing links as they wish.

The question is - just how instantaneous are those formations and breaks?

To make the question more concrete (using my example scenario), can the pushing car cause the car that started nearest to the exit of the corner to be pushed into the outside exit lane, break the link with that car, then instantaneously form a new link and cause the second exiting car to be pushed into the inside exit lane, and then break/form a 3rd link and push the 3rd car to be pushed into the exit lane of choice?

It is clear from the example in the rules that once the pushing car reaches the exit of the turn, it could break whatever link it had made and choose which exit lane to move into.

The alternative interpretation of conditional linking would be that the pushing car can only decide to break this pushing link once it reaches the exit of the corner (causing all 3 pushed cars to exit into the same exit lane).

Opinions would be welcome, but an authoritative answer from the designer would be even more helpful.

Thanks.
 
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Chris in Kansai
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Purpletriplecrown wrote:


The alternative interpretation of conditional linking would be that the pushing car can only decide to break this pushing link once it reaches the exit of the corner (causing all 3 pushed cars to exit into the same exit lane).

Thanks.


Your alternative interpretation is my understanding of how conditional linking works - the active car can only link/break a link with the car directly in front of it. If there are other cars in front of that car, they all move together as one block.

Thanks Federico, good to know.

Edit - or, in fact not.


 
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Federico Galeotti
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Chrysm wrote:
Purpletriplecrown wrote:


The alternative interpretation of conditional linking would be that the pushing car can only decide to break this pushing link once it reaches the exit of the corner (causing all 3 pushed cars to exit into the same exit lane).

Thanks.


Your alternative interpretation is my understanding of how conditional linking works - the active car can only link/break a link with the car directly in front of it. If there are other cars in front of that car, they all move together as one block.

Edit - I think this rule answers your question.

(6.9.2) Racing Lines out of a Corner
When a Racing Line exits a corner and has an option of multiple
lanes to enter, the active player decides which lane the line will
enter. Once a lane is selected all cars that make up the line must
enter that lane. You may not split some cars off into different
lanes. If a Race Card, such as Outside Line, indicates that an
active car must choose a certain lane (the outside lane in that
case), that rule follows through for every car in the line of cars.


No I do not think that is correct.

In my understanding, you can break conditional linking and form a new line at any time, as per 6.3.

Jeff Horger seems to confirm this here.
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Jeff Horger
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Purpletriplecrown wrote:

It is clear from the example in the rules that once the pushing car reaches the exit of the turn, it could break whatever link it had made and choose which exit lane to move into.

The alternative interpretation of conditional linking would be that the pushing car can only decide to break this pushing link once it reaches the exit of the corner (causing all 3 pushed cars to exit into the same exit lane).
Thanks.


This is correct. The active car, ONLY, can break the link. I clearly mis-understoond the question referred to and then forgot to subscribe to the previous thread.

The active car would have to get to the split and then choose the alternate path.
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G W

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Hmmm... I'm not convinced yet. In the other thread, somebody made a point that was not addressed, so I will bring it up again here:

In section 6.3, it says that ...the active car in a Conditional Link may choose to stop pushing the cars in front of it and change lanes. (bold added by me)

In the examples given in this thread and the other, there are no lane changes when breaking the link, as the active car is still in a 1 lane corner.

To further this point, in section 6.9 (Racing Lines and Corners), it states that - All cars in a race line must move into the same lane. You may not split some cars off into other lanes.

So, just to recap the original question with some extra verbage for clarity: we have 3 cars in a 1 lane corner, with the lead car in the last space of a corner(so it's about to leave the corner). The 3rd car back is activated with, let's say, a basic solo movement card.

This ruling says that the activated car can Conditionally Link the 2 cars ahead of it, and push them 1 space forward, and let's say, choose the outside line. This leaves the activated car now 2 spaces from exiting the corner. Then, he breaks the link that involves the front car (without changing lanes), and re-links with just the car in front of him and pushes it to the inside lane, and continues out of the corner.

Once the activated car is out of the corner, it makes sense - it can continue forward in the link, or break the link and change lanes, etc.

It just seems odd that you can break and reform a link in the middle of a 1 lane corner without changing lanes.

EDIT: looks like Jeff beat me to the punch and agrees with me, I think...

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Federico Galeotti
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Jeff Horger wrote:
Purpletriplecrown wrote:

It is clear from the example in the rules that once the pushing car reaches the exit of the turn, it could break whatever link it had made and choose which exit lane to move into.

The alternative interpretation of conditional linking would be that the pushing car can only decide to break this pushing link once it reaches the exit of the corner (causing all 3 pushed cars to exit into the same exit lane).
Thanks.


This is correct. The active car, ONLY, can break the link. I clearly mis-understoond the question referred to and then forgot to subscribe to the previous thread.

The active car would have to get to the split and then choose the alternate path.

Whoa, so we played that rule wrong up to now!
 
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Purple TripleCrown
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Jeff Horger wrote:
Purpletriplecrown wrote:

It is clear from the example in the rules that once the pushing car reaches the exit of the turn, it could break whatever link it had made and choose which exit lane to move into.

The alternative interpretation of conditional linking would be that the pushing car can only decide to break this pushing link once it reaches the exit of the corner (causing all 3 pushed cars to exit into the same exit lane).
Thanks.


This is correct. The active car, ONLY, can break the link. I clearly mis-understoond the question referred to and then forgot to subscribe to the previous thread.

The active car would have to get to the split and then choose the alternate path.


Thanks for such a quick and clear reply.

Again, really enjoying this game!
 
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Federico Galeotti
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gwill2112 wrote:
In section 6.3, it says that ...the active car in a Conditional Link may choose to stop pushing the cars in front of it and change lanes. (bold added by me)

I interpreted this rule as the active car in a Conditional Link may choose to stop pushing the cars in front of it and may choose to change lanes.
Maybe it would be better to rephrase it as the active car in a Conditional Link may choose to stop pushing the cars in front of it by changing lanes.
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Jeff Horger
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vetinari7878 wrote:
Jeff Horger wrote:
Purpletriplecrown wrote:

It is clear from the example in the rules that once the pushing car reaches the exit of the turn, it could break whatever link it had made and choose which exit lane to move into.

The alternative interpretation of conditional linking would be that the pushing car can only decide to break this pushing link once it reaches the exit of the corner (causing all 3 pushed cars to exit into the same exit lane).
Thanks.


This is correct. The active car, ONLY, can break the link. I clearly mis-understoond the question referred to and then forgot to subscribe to the previous thread.

The active car would have to get to the split and then choose the alternate path.

Whoa, so we played that rule wrong up to now!


I am very sorry. I had the situation reversed in my head. I am mildly dyslexic on spatial issues and should have displayed the question on a board before I answered it.
 
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Federico Galeotti
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Jeff Horger wrote:
vetinari7878 wrote:
Jeff Horger wrote:
Purpletriplecrown wrote:

It is clear from the example in the rules that once the pushing car reaches the exit of the turn, it could break whatever link it had made and choose which exit lane to move into.

The alternative interpretation of conditional linking would be that the pushing car can only decide to break this pushing link once it reaches the exit of the corner (causing all 3 pushed cars to exit into the same exit lane).
Thanks.


This is correct. The active car, ONLY, can break the link. I clearly mis-understoond the question referred to and then forgot to subscribe to the previous thread.

The active car would have to get to the split and then choose the alternate path.

Whoa, so we played that rule wrong up to now!


I am very sorry. I had the situation reversed in my head. I am mildly dyslexic on spatial issues and should have displayed the question on a board before I answered it.


Absolutely no problem! I actually played a game of GP last night with the "correct" conditional linking, and I agree that the new ruling makes more sense than the previous one (and it makes even more important to get first into a 1-lane corner).
 
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Daniel de Souza
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So, just to confirm (my english isn't the best and the quotes are confusing me)
What did Jeff say:
You CAN do what the OP said or you CAN'T??
Can you break and form new links in the middle of a curve to push different cars to different exit lanes OR you have to first push all cars together to one exit lane then you can choose a different lane to exit yourself?

Thanks!
 
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Chris in Kansai
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joetantobr wrote:
you have to first push all cars together to one exit lane then you can choose a different lane to exit yourself?



This
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Marco Merli
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I love this game but not sure about this situation, using the conditional linking with a car inside a curve. A friend of mine and I have read all your posts, but we were not able to decide if we have understood rule n. 6.3 correctly (“unlike the ordinary linking, the active car in Conditional Link may choose to stop pushing the car in front of it and change lanes”), probably because of our poor English knowledge. So, let’s we try with some images.
This is the starting situation

Car number 3 (the last red car) has been activated and uses a conditional link. While playing we discussed about two interpretations of the rule.

1) The driver must choose to push car number 44 (inner lane) or car number 99 (outer lane). He decides for inner lane (car 44). Since he cannot change lane in a curve, he must continue to push all the cars, using the inner lane.
This the situation after four movements:

Car number 3 will spend the 5th movement in the inner lane

2) The driver can choose and change any lane (inner or outer) in each movement point spent. In the figure below the driver chooses alternatively inner, outer, inner, outer, while expending his first 4 movements points, but he could have changed idea in any moments (e.g. inner, inner, outer, outer). At the end, he can choose again the inner lane or the outer lane
This is the final situation:

Which interpretation is correct? Case number 1 or case number 2?
Thanks in advance for any clarification.
 
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Jeff Horger
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The first image is the correct one. The only car that can stop linking is the actual active car. That car and that car only may stop linking and then re-link with a different car.

At the end of the image below, after 4 MP, car 3 could then stop pushing car 00 and that line and begin pushing car 99.



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Marco Merli
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Jeff Horger wrote:
The first image is the correct one. The only car that can stop linking is the actual active car. That car and that car only may stop linking and then re-link with a different car.

At the end of the image below, after 4 MP, car 3 could then stop pushing car 00 and that line and begin pushing car 99.




Thank a lot Horger. I love both your games (TA and GP) and my compliments, because you has been able to make work your system in the F1 environment in a very clever way; to be honest, I was very skeptic at the beginning and I am very happy to have been wrong
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Luca Veluttini
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Hi Mr. Horger.

May I ask you a specification?

Because of your answer, even the case 2 is correct...

Jeff Horger wrote:
The only car that can stop linking is the actual active car. That car and that car only may stop linking and then re-link with a different car.


Let's the movement step by step in case #2:

- car #3 is the active one
- first conditional linking, from bottom: #3, #00, #80, #66, #44
| XX | 44 | 66 | 80 | 00 | 3 | XX |
| XX | 99 |
- first sector movement, everyone in the link advance one sector (inside lane)
| XX | 44 | 66 | 80 | 00 | 3 | XX |
| XX | XX | 99 |
- break conditional linking
- new conditional linking, from bottom: #3, #00, #80, #99 (#66 is in place of #44 and #44 is one sector in front of his initial position)
| XX | 44 | 66 | 80 | 00 | 3 | XX |
| XX | XX | 99 |
- one sector movement, everyone in the link advance one sector (outside lane)
| XX | 44 | 66 | 00 | 3 | XX |
| XX | 99 | 80 |
- break conditional linking
- new conditional linking, from bottom: #3, #00, #66, #44
| XX | 44 | 66 | 00 | 3 | XX |
| XX | 99 | 80 |
- and so on: after every single sector movement I'll break the conditional and I'll reform a new one with another cars (both some older and new ones)

In fact with the active car I'm in the same lane (curve with only one lane) thus I haven't change it, but I'm moving two different lanes outside the curve.

Thank you very much for the answer.

Best regards ^^
 
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Jeff Horger
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You may only change links if you have a choice. Once you elect to link, toy have to have a movement option to change links.
 
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