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Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: New Caverns of Cynder Enemies - Magma Fiends rss

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Brian Jurney
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It was just announced that they are adding in a new enemy from the Caverns of Cynder called the magma fiends on their Kickstarter. It will include 12 models for the world that has desperately needed new enemies since day 1. Its a social media stretch goal which they require 8000 likes on their FB page (currently have about 7915).



For fans of SoB and who are on the fence about this KS, its at a point where its getting to good not to back, at least in my opinion, whatever that's worth on the internet. laugh
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Klutz
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I agree that Cynder seems like it needs more enemies. Which is surprising since it was (if my memory serves me well) the first Otherwold Stretch Goal. One of the only add-on enemies I got with my Outlaw Pledge are the Succubi.


Slightly off topic but...

Some of the minis in Forbidden Fortress seem to have a lot of flat, smooth surfaces, which I find are a pain in the rear to paint. I'm in no way an expert painter, but I have a really hard time getting the color to be smooth. Hopefully they're just preliminary renders and will have some detail added.

The Sumo hero and the living statue also seem to have a lot of smooth surfaces. On the other hand, the Tengu, the Dishonored Dead and the Onmorake Carrion Phoenix all seem to have a lot of well defined detail.


I've only painted minis from the core sets, are newer minis better / have more small detail?

Any tips for painting large smooth surfaces and getting even coverage?

I'm not looking forward to painting the Harbinger...
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Brian Jurney
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The void hounds have a very smooth surface across much of the model and I had no problems getting paint on them. Normally using a primer before painting should help the paint to adhere though (which Im sure you are likely doing).
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William Curtis
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The newer enemies were better casts than the base game, but complexity varies depending on how complex the sculpt needs to be... (I know, not a great answer)
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Neomaxim Noefaith
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KevBelisle wrote:

I agree that Cynder seems like it needs more enemies. Which is surprising since it was (if my memory serves me well) the first Otherwold Stretch Goal. One of the only add-on enemies I got with my Outlaw Pledge are the Succubi.


Slightly off topic but...

Some of the minis in Forbidden Fortress seem to have a lot of flat, smooth surfaces, which I find are a pain in the rear to paint. I'm in no way an expert painter, but I have a really hard time getting the color to be smooth. Hopefully they're just preliminary renders and will have some detail added.

The Sumo hero and the living statue also seem to have a lot of smooth surfaces. On the other hand, the Tengu, the Dishonored Dead and the Onmorake Carrion Phoenix all seem to have a lot of well defined detail.


I've only painted minis from the core sets, are newer minis better / have more small detail?

Any tips for painting large smooth surfaces and getting even coverage?

I'm not looking forward to painting the Harbinger...


You absolutely must use primer, which might be a given, but the bigger rookie mistake is not thinning paints. Your paint should have the consistency of milk. It will go on much faster, but you'll need to do multiple coats (letting it dry fully in between).

The difference you'll see will be enormous.
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Joe Price
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KevBelisle wrote:
Some of the minis in Forbidden Fortress seem to have a lot of flat, smooth surfaces, which I find are a pain in the rear to paint. I'm in no way an expert painter, but I have a really hard time getting the color to be smooth.

Any tips for painting large smooth surfaces and getting even coverage?


I am not a good painter, but here are a few things I try and have seen done.
* Very slightly water the paint - this causes it to dry a little slower and apply thinner. Generally easier to smooth it out.
* Focus on shading and highlighting - even though the surfaces are smooth, they're rarely without features - with the fiends, there are slight bumps and edges, you'll probably want to dry brush those bits to make them stand out even just a little bit. This will make the paint job non-even, but life isn't even. Embrace it.
* Don't go for a single color, blend shades across the surface. This isn't an easy technique for some folks though others find it simple. (*shrug*)
* Some what related to the above bits, paint a light source. I forget what this is called, but you intentionally pain the part of the model that is towards the light source lights and the pieces away or opposite from it darker/shaded. Your flat surface will probably not be completely in one area, giving you reason to vary the paint job.

Also, not all primers and paints are made equal. Try a few different tests if you can to see how they react to your painting style, both primers and paints. The specific model versions of both are more expensive because they generally work better for painting the models (and yes, because there's a captive/uninformed/unskilled audience).

I know several different really good model painters (and I'm not even close - I'm basically just the prep and finish guy [clean, assemble, prime and seal]), but one set of paints loved by one could be reviled by another. Literally to each their own.
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Klutz
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Newtruthneomaxim wrote:
You absolutely must use primer, which might be a given, but the bigger rookie mistake is not thinning paints. Your paint should have the consistency of milk. It will go on much faster, but you'll need to do multiple coats (letting it dry fully in between).

The difference you'll see will be enormous.


I prime my minis, and I thin my paints as well.

But the lack of detail seems to make techniques like dry brushing and washing harder to accomplish. At least, that's been my excuse - am I correct in thinking that a model with more sculpted detail will be much easier to dry brush and wash?
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Sid Rain
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Dumb question, but what do you use to thin paints? I know the obvious answer is paint thinner (duh), but can you use water to thin paint or does that not work?
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Joe Price
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KevBelisle wrote:
Newtruthneomaxim wrote:
You absolutely must use primer, which might be a given, but the bigger rookie mistake is not thinning paints. Your paint should have the consistency of milk. It will go on much faster, but you'll need to do multiple coats (letting it dry fully in between).

The difference you'll see will be enormous.


I prime my minis, and I thin my paints as well.

But the lack of detail seems to make techniques like dry brushing and washing harder to accomplish. At least, that's been my excuse - am I correct in thinking that a model with more sculpted detail will be much easier to dry brush and wash?


Not really. I've watched folks dry brush 40K marine armies, including Rhinos, Land Raiders, Drop Pods and even on guy doing a Baneblade. (For those who don't know, that's a small tank, a big tank, a big terrain piece that can practically fit six 32mm models, and a really freaking huge tank that you can use feet to measure at the 32mm scale.) While it does catch the detail, they would also dry (really dry) brush the extremely flat large armored plates. It adds some texture and depth to the paint, making it look more real due to the consistent and yet random paint layer. Even though I couldn't tell a difference in the paint job, I could tell the difference in the model when they were done. Just be prepared to destroy brushes even if you have a good brush soap to clean them.

Washing, on the other hand, depends upon crevices. For large flat surfaces, see blending and shading.

Once again, note that I am not a good painter. I really don't paint much. I just know people who do.
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Joanna G
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Depends on what type of paint you're using - assuming it's a water soluble paint like acrylics, you can use water. I use Reaper Master Series paints and use the Flow Improver to help thin out older paints that have gotten thick. Not sure what's in Flow Improver though, it's similar to water though.
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Joe Price
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paddirn wrote:
Dumb question, but what do you use to thin paints? I know the obvious answer is paint thinner (duh), but can you use water to thin paint or does that not work?


From what I understand, water can work fine. But if you have hard water, it can mess with the consistency and your result when it dries. Distilled water does better.

If you're doing washes, that's when you need something different than water so that the paint pigment pools well. Acrylic paint is water soluble, which literally means it dissolves in water (if it's not dry). There are entire science articles on this - interesting reads if you're into science and painting.
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KevBelisle wrote:

I've only painted minis from the core sets, are newer minis better / have more small detail?


Yes, there is much better detail in the newer stuff (wave 2.0 or thereabouts). The new stuff is high-detail but fragile resin. They are a lot of fun to paint, assuming you've thoroughly cleaned off the release agent. It's not clear to me if these resin 'previews' will remain resin once they are out of preview mode. Also, some liquid green stuff is handy to fill in some 'bubble' defects you'll occassionally get in the resins.

Overall, I prefer the wave 1.5 minis (like Scafford Gang, Void Sorcs, etc). Better detail than core sets, a little better fit perhaps, but a lot less fragile than the resins.

KevBelisle wrote:

Any tips for painting large smooth surfaces and getting even coverage?


First, make sure you are priming them with something that has good stick on plastic. If you're painting resins, it's super important to get that release agent off (see other threads on this topic in SoB forums).

Get your paint nice and smooth, like 2% milk or so. Plan on getting complete coverage in two-three coats. If your paint is a bit transparent and it looks like two-three coats won't do, then go back in time and apply a darker/more opaque paint with better stick first. Same rules apply vis-a-vis coats and consistency. Then apply the lighter color on that while keeping the recesses dark.

KevBelisle wrote:

I'm not looking forward to painting the Harbinger...


DON'T GLUE THE WINGS ON!!! It won't fit in your house anymore, let alone the game box or whatever storage you're using. Go to kjmegnetics.com and get some tiny neodymium magnets and craft them in the joints instead.
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paddirn wrote:
Dumb question, but what do you use to thin paints? I know the obvious answer is paint thinner (duh), but can you use water to thin paint or does that not work?


Don't use paint thinner! That's for oil-based paints, but for miniature painting, we use acrylics, which are water-based.

You thin paint with whatever it is based on, thus acrylics are thinned with water. This is fine for most painting techniques.

Keep in mind that there's only so much water you can add to your paint before you ruin its ability to stick by diluting the binding agents too much. So if you want to create super thin paint for glazing or washes, you will need to thin with a mix of water and medium (medium is paint without pigment) and maybe flow improver (reduces surface tension in paint), dependng on what you're doing. You can find those things where ever you bought your acrylics.
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Joanna G
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rpvt wrote:
paddirn wrote:
Dumb question, but what do you use to thin paints? I know the obvious answer is paint thinner (duh), but can you use water to thin paint or does that not work?


From what I understand, water can work fine. But if you have hard water, it can mess with the consistency and your result when it dries. Distilled water does better.

If you're doing washes, that's when you need something different than water so that the paint pigment pools well. Acrylic paint is water soluble, which literally means it dissolves in water (if it's not dry). There are entire science articles on this - interesting reads if you're into science and painting.


For washes, use a varnish with water (to dilute it), that works well. Again, I use the reaper washes, but from what I understand, their washes are part water, part sealer, and then pigment.
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Joe Price
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horfrost3 wrote:
rpvt wrote:
paddirn wrote:
Dumb question, but what do you use to thin paints? I know the obvious answer is paint thinner (duh), but can you use water to thin paint or does that not work?


From what I understand, water can work fine. But if you have hard water, it can mess with the consistency and your result when it dries. Distilled water does better.

If you're doing washes, that's when you need something different than water so that the paint pigment pools well. Acrylic paint is water soluble, which literally means it dissolves in water (if it's not dry). There are entire science articles on this - interesting reads if you're into science and painting.


For washes, use a varnish with water (to dilute it), that works well. Again, I use the reaper washes, but from what I understand, their washes are part water, part sealer, and then pigment.


http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/A_basic_course_in_Acrylic_...
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Jason Daniels
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Hate to be the combo-breaker here, but these have been unlocked. They make a nice addition to the pledges and add something most SoB players have been clammoring for. Good job, Frogs!
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I'm very curious as to how *exactly* their "burrowing" ability will work.

If they really open doors, and therefore cause more exploration tokens to drop, they have the potential to turn a relatively easy fight into almost certain death.

*Magma fiends spawn* ok, no problem.
*They open next tile, it contains the final clue, it spawns 2 threat cards, which spawn hydra and a slasher and another threat card, which spawns whatever.... Then a darkness card spawns a hungry dead ambush... Then everyone dies*
:-)
Super excited
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Klutz
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AFAIK, even if they did reveal extra map tiles, the exploration tokens would not be revealed until a Hero enters the map tile.

From the rulebook, the requirement for revealing an exploration token are that there is a Hero on the Map Tile with the token:

Rulebook, page 13 wrote:
As noted above, a Hero on a puzzle connection space like this is considered to be on BOTH Map Tiles. This means that during the Room Exploration step of the turn (after all Heroes have Activated), this Exploration Token will be revealed as there will be at least one Hero on the Map Tile with it.
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Joanna G
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Cooperton wrote:
I'm very curious as to how *exactly* their "burrowing" ability will work.

If they really open doors, and therefore cause more exploration tokens to drop, they have the potential to turn a relatively easy fight into almost certain death.

*Magma fiends spawn* ok, no problem.
*They open next tile, it contains the final clue, it spawns 2 threat cards, which spawn hydra and a slasher and another threat card, which spawns whatever.... Then a darkness card spawns a hungry dead ambush... Then everyone dies*
:-)
Super excited


oh, wow - I hadn't thought of that. That could be really challenging and fun!
Edit: I mean, minus the death part.
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Max Caine
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The key paragraph from the Magma Fiends entry is this (emphasis added):

Quote:
These enemies have the ability to chew open new doorways on the board and can leave a trail of burning lava spaces in their wake!


So that probably means that they deploy around any endcaps (as they've just eaten their way through) and you have one more doorway you can look through if you fancy it. That would be interesting as quite a few of the larger multi-entryway rooms have potential doorways about mid-way. What would be really interesting is if they deployed around endcaps on any tile that the Posse occupies, as they could come at the Posse from both sides!

EDIT: Thinking about it, that would result in some interesting rule interactions. Take the exploration mission. When you get a dead-end room, does it stay a dead-end room if a pack of magma fiends chomp through one of the endcaps? Or a fixed-map mission with exploration tokens. I would guess in such cases the endcaps would stay endcaps (one would argue the hole is unstable and collapses behind the fiends). Also it would make missions where you have to find a room a little easier, as you could explore several doors instead of having to go from room to room.
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If you're using acrylic paint bought in the hobby store, you can use water or clear medium to thin paints. The GW version is called Lahmia Medium. I find the stuff invaluable.
 
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