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Subject: Portugal empire card rss

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Jose Arias
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Why does the card of Portugal empire has the capital in Toledo and the coat of arms is the current spanish one?

The Portugal kingdom and Spanish kingdom only were joined during 60 years, from 1580 to 1640 and the spanish king gets the heir of Portugal.

I think It's better to call Castile kingdom or set the capital in Lisboa with the portugesse coat of arms.
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Phil Eklund
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I had trouble with the selection of empires in Pax Renaissance. I had only design space for ten empires, and this was an absolute max. It took literally years of trials to make 10 empires work. See https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/57319/designer-diary-pax-...

In two places on the map, called Portugal and Hungary in the game, I had trouble because these places shared geography with the Kingdom of Castile and the Poland-Lithuanian Commonwealth respectively.

In both these instances, I compromised by depicting one empire on the King side of the card, and the other empire on the republic side of the card. In the case of Iberia, Henry the Navigator of Portugal is on the king side, and the Cortes Generales of Castile is on the other side. Despite this compromise, I have gotten mail from disappointed and outraged players from Poland and Castile.

During this time period Castile was wracked by a civil war of succession. Two Castilian queens were in the running. Joanna the Mad was supported by Portugal, while the eventual winner, Isabella had the support of Aragon. This war could have gone either way; I think the chances were about equal. Therefore, Spain could have been forged by a combination of Portugal and Castile, or it could have been forged from Castile and Aragon. I have accommodated both possibilities in the game. Naturally, which queen would win and which queen sent to the nunnery was crucial because the winner would inherit the shipping technology crucial to both discover and then conquer the entire world. And it is amazing, incredible, that all this happened within the 1460 to 1530 period covered in the game.

By the way, the "coat of arms" depicted on the king side of the card, with its compound cross of five blue bezant-charged escutcheons, is the Portuguese flag under King John II of Portugal. It is not that of modern Spain.
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Max
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I think you meant Joanna la Beltraneja, who was indeed married to the Portuguese king. Joanna the Mad was the daughter of the Catholic Monarchs.

About the question in hand, while it's clear that a compromise was needed, the coat of arms of Castile should be one of these:

House of Trastamara, ruling house of Castile


Catholic Monarchs, rulers of Castile, Aragon and Granada (but, not yet, of Navarra).
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Phil Eklund
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Lisbon was chosen as one of the 4 banking cities, and it is represented by the cube between Spain and England, as indicated on the Player Green banker card. It is occupied at the start of the game by the Marchionni Dynasty. An Italian family, like all Europe's bankers until the Germans learned some accounting tricks.

The choice of the Castilian capital was tricky. It had to be Castile, because otherwise what would soon be the most powerful empire in the world would not have any map presence whatsoever. It had to be a trading center, preferably a port. Yet Castile didn't have any good ports when the game begins - Lisbon was in Portugal, Valencia in Aragon, and Granada in moorish Nasrid. I had to choose between Toledo or Seville, and finally decided on the former, for some reason.

The flag chosen for the Portuguese side of the Empire card is the Portugal flag from 1485. But the Castilian side is more hypothetical. It is supposed to represent a Castilian republic, under the Cortes Generales. While it is true this institution represented somewhat of a pursestring counterbalance against the king's power, historically it never became a republic, and thus there was no Spanish Renaissance. In particular, the merchants were never free or autonomous, and except for the black market operated under the onus of royal monopolies.

This failure meant that the Spanish and Portuguese colonies were doomed to economic stagnation, which is evident even today when one compares them to the British colonies. This entire theme (black market vs. royal monopoly) is the basis of my game "Lords of the Spanish Main". https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/25618/lords-spanish-main The situation is similar to today's Venezuela, where the black market is the only thing keeping its starving inhabitants alive.

Peter Bauer, Emeritus Professor of the London School of Economics, writes. " Students of Latin America will know in a general way that Spanish colonial rule was accompanied by extensive state controls,..but not many will know how pervasive and detailed these controls were. The system of economic controls and royal monopolies represented the influence of the bullionist and mercantilist theories...showing why massive inflow of gold and silver did not promote development in Spain. "

But I needed the possibility of a Spanish Republic in the game, and thus chose the Cortes Generales and its coat of arms to represent this possibility.
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Daniel
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phileklund wrote:

The flag chosen for the Portuguese side of the Empire card is the Portugal flag from 1485. But the Castilian side is more hypothetical. It is supposed to represent a Castilian republic, under the Cortes Generales. While it is true this institution represented somewhat of a pursestring counterbalance against the king's power, historically it never became a republic, and thus there was no Spanish Renaissance. In particular, the merchants were never free or autonomous, and except for the black market operated under the onus of royal monopolies.


Hi, Phil,

I really appreciate all the historical comments in the cards and all your historical and design comments here in the BGG.

If therre is a window of opportunity whenever there is a reprint, I think it would be good change the flag for the Republic of Portugal.

It looks out place, as it is a modern coat of arms, including the Spanish royal crown and the fleur-de-lis from the House of Bourbon.

The fact the the red and yellow bars of Aragon (which is a different empire in the game) makes it more out of place.

More than hypothetic, it is an anachronism. I guss because in Spain you see it often in many different governement offices.

A great game, none-the-less!

Daniel
 
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Daniel
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phileklund wrote:

But I needed the possibility of a Spanish Republic in the game, and thus chose the Cortes Generales and its coat of arms to represent this possibility.


I am not sure where the misunderstanding is coming from but the coat of arms shown in the "Republic of Portugal" card is not the coat of arms of the "Cortes Generales".

It is the current coat of arms in Spain, which is used by many public institutions, including the Cortes Generales, which don't have a coat of its own.

Daniel
 
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Jorik
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the Cortes Generales is the republic side.
I think there's a mention in another thread about the flag.
 
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