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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: wings of darkness [spoilers] rss

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Chris McDonald
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Card text: Revelation – Test [Agility] (4). If you fail, take 1 horror and 1 damage. Then, disengage with each non-Nightgaunt enemy engaged with you and move to a Central location.

Do you trigger the "Then" condition even if you pass the test?
 
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mplain
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No.
Quote:
Then
If the effect of an ability includes the word "then," the text preceding the word "then" must be successfully resolved in full before the remainder of the effect described after the word "then" can be resolved.
- If the pre-then aspect of an effect does not successfully resolve in full, the post-then aspect does not resolve.

The pre-Then aspect in this case is "If you fail, take 1 horror and 1 damage."
If you didn't fail, nothing happened.
If no change of game state occured, the effect didn't resolve successfully in full.
If the pre-Then effect didn't resolve successfully, the post-Then effect doesn't resolve.
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Ed Knight
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This also makes thematic sense - you passed an agility test and avoided being carried off by a nightgaunt, which is what would have damaged you.
 
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Willie Lothberg
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As a true logician I believe that you have this one wrong. The text preceding the word "then" have been successfully resolved in full weather or not you pass or fail. If you for some reason can't complete the instructions preceding "then" you will not resolve the effects that follow it.
 
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Jeff Jackson
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Mather
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OK, one time Randy Beaman had to take baths with his brother. So one time his little brother took a potty in the bathtub .....and now Randy Beaman gets to take showers alone. 'K, bye.
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One time, OK, see, one time Randy Beaman's little brother ate Pop Rocks and drank a soda at the same time and his head exploded! 'K, bye.
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willienue wrote:
As a true logician I believe that you have this one wrong. The text preceding the word "then" have been successfully resolved in full weather or not you pass or fail. If you for some reason can't complete the instructions preceding "then" you will not resolve the effects that follow it.


Logic aside, mplain quoted the appropriate rules of the game that govern the use of the word "then". He is correct.
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mplain
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willienue wrote:
As a true logician I believe that you have this one wrong. The text preceding the word "then" have been successfully resolved in full weather or not you pass or fail. If you for some reason can't complete the instructions preceding "then" you will not resolve the effects that follow it.

This is actually a valid point. I understand what you mean, it works as you say in Doomtown. I am basing my interpretation on the Thrones rulebook actually, in which the entry for the word "Then" is worded slightly differently than in the Arkham rulebook. Compare:
Arkham Horror RRG wrote:
Then
If the effect of an ability includes the word "then," the text preceding the word "then" must be successfully resolved in full before the remainder of the effect described after the word "then" can be resolved.
A Game of Thrones RRG wrote:
The word "Then"
If the effect text of an ability includes the word "then," the text preceding the word "then" must be successfully resolved in full (i.e. the game state changes to reflect the intent of the pre-then aspect of the effect in its entirety) before the remainder of the effect described after the word "then" can be resolved.

As you can see, they decided to drop the underlined sentence, but it is actually an umportant one: it says that a 'successful resolution in full' requires a change of game state. If there is no change of game state, then there is no successful resolution in full.

This line is not present in the Arkham rulebook, I guess it was omitted due to it seemingly lacking importance. But my guess is that if you ask Matt, he'll tell you that it's exactly how it works in Arkham.
 
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Richard A. Edwards
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Lacey
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I'm a rules editor. But this sort of thing drives me nuts. Arguing "pre-then" and "post-then"?

How about just better writing?

Card text: Revelation – Test [Agility] (4). If you fail, take 1 horror and 1 damage and then disengage with each non-Nightgaunt enemy engaged with you and move to a Central location.

Or

Card text: Revelation – Test [Agility] (4). If you fail, take 1 horror and 1 damage. After testing, disengage with each non-Nightgaunt enemy engaged with you and move to a Central location.

Or

Card text: Revelation – Test [Agility] (4). If you fail, take 1 horror and 1 damage. If you succeed, disengage with each non-Nightgaunt enemy engaged with you and move to a Central location.

There. Fixed.

Now which way the designer meant, I don't know.

Hey, at least we get to argue about the meaning of "then".



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Scott Dockery
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In most games, using a completely separate sentence like that would imply two independent events. If they'd just used a semicolon, it would have been clear that the movement was tied to failing the test. Likewise, if they'd put the "Then..." sentence on a separate line, the reverse would have been true. And you can't even use the Grim Rule because the value of the movement is completely dependent on the situation!

Mrgrgr, for now I'll go with treating "then" as dependent on the previous sentence. It makes a complete mockery of English grammar, but it is what a strict reading of the RAW entails, and it does make thematic sense. Has anyone asked the devs for clarification yet?
 
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