$15.00
$20.00
$5.00
Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
18 Posts

Myth» Forums » Rules

Subject: Move cards and the darkness meter rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Benjamin Tieman
United States
Simi Valley
California
flag msg tools
WANTED: Looking for someone to make me a papillon microbadge. (It's a dog.)
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
When are the AP added to the darkness meter after playing a move card (like hustle or sprint)?

Is it immediately, possibly triggering the darkness cycle before you can spend the AP? Or is it after you spend the AP? If so, what if you only want to spend 1 of the 2/3?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Turner
Australia
Melbourne
VIC
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I believe you get to finish your turn, then the darkness triggers.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Callahan
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
you get to complete the movement; as well as any other ability that is part of a Combo (like adding a Hustle card to Suicide Run in order to gain the Dash 2 extra movement). You always get to complete the card prior to raising the AP and potentially triggering the Darkness.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eugenio Andrés
Spain
flag msg tools
You have to add AP after everything that is in the card is done.

If you play hustle "You gain 2 additional MP", the effect is that u gain that MP but can't use them until darkness cycle ends

If u are playing brigand, u can play Movement cards to add Dash but the same rule applies

By the way, combo cards are fully resolved together, no matter if darkness meter reaches 6. When u combo cards, they work as one card
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Tieman
United States
Simi Valley
California
flag msg tools
WANTED: Looking for someone to make me a papillon microbadge. (It's a dog.)
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
So this:

yamato2 wrote:
you get to complete the movement; as well as any other ability that is part of a Combo (like adding a Hustle card to Suicide Run in order to gain the Dash 2 extra movement). You always get to complete the card prior to raising the AP and potentially triggering the Darkness.


Or this?

eu7getafe wrote:
You have to add AP after everything that is in the card is done.

If you play hustle "You gain 2 additional MP", the effect is that u gain that MP but can't use them until darkness cycle ends...

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Torrens
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You complete the action on the card, then spend the AP. If a card gives you movement, you would complete that movement, then spend the AP, then continue the turn (activating the Darkness if the meter reaches 6). The exception is when you play a card with the "Combo" keyword. You can play several combo cards and not spend the AP until the entire combo is completed.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eugenio Andrés
Spain
flag msg tools
Brian T wrote:
You complete the action on the card, then spend the AP. If a card gives you movement, you would complete that movement, then spend the AP, then continue the turn (activating the Darkness if the meter reaches 6). The exception is when you play a card with the "Combo" keyword. You can play several combo cards and not spend the AP until the entire combo is completed.


I cannot agree with u, the card said "You gain 2 additional MP" not "Move 2 additional MP"

It's like "Tumble" (Archer Card):
"Move up to 3 squares and attack 1 target within range."

The card specifies that u have to move, not that u gain MP.

Another example is "Disengage" (Soldier Card). Much clear here.
"Before resolving an enemy melee attack targeting you, gain 2 MP to spend immediately and ignore the attack. Not considered a Move"

Gain and spend immediately.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Jackson
United States
Versailles
Missouri
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
From the megacon forums (posted last year)

http://megacongames.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1028/two-ga...


Question Presented:

1. If a player spends a hustle card to gain MP that moves from the darkness from five to six, can he utilize his movement points as non-combat actions before the darkness activates? This was primarily for closing the trapdoor. We played it as a yes, but there was disagreement.


Kenny's Response:

A hero card is fully resolved before activating the darkness. So you would be able to use the mp.
3 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Torrens
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
eu7getafe wrote:
Brian T wrote:
You complete the action on the card, then spend the AP. If a card gives you movement, you would complete that movement, then spend the AP, then continue the turn (activating the Darkness if the meter reaches 6). The exception is when you play a card with the "Combo" keyword. You can play several combo cards and not spend the AP until the entire combo is completed.


I cannot agree with u, the card said "You gain 2 additional MP" not "Move 2 additional MP"

It's like "Tumble" (Archer Card):
"Move up to 3 squares and attack 1 target within range."

The card specifies that u have to move, not that u gain MP.

Another example is "Disengage" (Soldier Card). Much clear here.
"Before resolving an enemy melee attack targeting you, gain 2 MP to spend immediately and ignore the attack. Not considered a Move"

Gain and spend immediately.


Not really sure what you are getting at here....

The card "Hustle" is a Reaction card played for 1 AP.

You play the card, make use of the 2MP you gain from it (or not as you so choose), then when you are done making use of those MP, you advance the Darkness meter by 1.

I believe the reason the use the term "gain movement" is to ensure you understand that playing this card will put your hero into the aggressive move mode for your turn. There are a number of cards that expressly say "Not considered a Move" like the Brigand's card Shadow's Reach, to avoid confusion.

So in answer to the OP, my statement was correct. He would be allowed to use the MP gained by playing a card before the Darkness activates.
3 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trevor Schadt
United States
Glenshaw
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Brian T wrote:
Not really sure what you are getting at here....
He's getting at the fact that he believes that your interpretation of the card is incorrect. And I agree with him.

Brian T wrote:
The card "Hustle" is a Reaction card played for 1 AP.

You play the card, make use of the 2MP you gain from it (or not as you so choose), then when you are done making use of those MP, you advance the Darkness meter by 1.
I believe that to be an incorrect interpretation of the card. The card does not say "You gain 2 additional MP, and spend them now if you wish." The card says "You gain 2 additional MP." Once you have gained -- not used, just gained -- the 2 MP, you have finished everything that is stated on the card, and at that point the Darkness Meter increases.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MM
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Okay - I'll weigh in here and suggest both BrianT and CarelessO are spot on.

It is always very dangerous to argue semantics of McG cards like you would another producer like FFG for instance. Sometimes you can't interpret things literally.

Then again, as McG loves to point out. This is your game - play it however you want and ignore any rule/card confusion. whistle

For those that may not know, here are the two cards that have been discussed the most thus far:



The way to play these cards is to resolve them before increasing the darkness. When I say "resolve", I mean that you spend the additional MP before increasing AP.

If I play a Sprint card, I gain 3 additional MP to spend however I want - but I must use it before increasing AP by 1. Once I've spent the MP (my choice on how to spend), I increase the AP by 1 and lose any unspent MP.
2 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Torrens
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ryudoowaru wrote:
Brian T wrote:
Not really sure what you are getting at here....
He's getting at the fact that he believes that your interpretation of the card is incorrect. And I agree with him.

Brian T wrote:
The card "Hustle" is a Reaction card played for 1 AP.

You play the card, make use of the 2MP you gain from it (or not as you so choose), then when you are done making use of those MP, you advance the Darkness meter by 1.
I believe that to be an incorrect interpretation of the card. The card does not say "You gain 2 additional MP, and spend them now if you wish." The card says "You gain 2 additional MP." Once you have gained -- not used, just gained -- the 2 MP, you have finished everything that is stated on the card, and at that point the Darkness Meter increases.


Ok, now I see what you are getting at.

At least there was clarification from MCG on their forum. You get to spend the MP before the Darkness activates. I suppose they could have worded the card differently to avoid confusion...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jerry Tresman
United Kingdom
Christchurch
Dorset
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Brian T wrote:
ryudoowaru wrote:
Brian T wrote:
Not really sure what you are getting at here....
He's getting at the fact that he believes that your interpretation of the card is incorrect. And I agree with him.

Brian T wrote:
The card "Hustle" is a Reaction card played for 1 AP.

You play the card, make use of the 2MP you gain from it (or not as you so choose), then when you are done making use of those MP, you advance the Darkness meter by 1.
I believe that to be an incorrect interpretation of the card. The card does not say "You gain 2 additional MP, and spend them now if you wish." The card says "You gain 2 additional MP." Once you have gained -- not used, just gained -- the 2 MP, you have finished everything that is stated on the card, and at that point the Darkness Meter increases.


Ok, now I see what you are getting at.

At least there was clarification from MCG on their forum. You get to spend the MP before the Darkness activates. I suppose they could have worded the card differently to avoid confusion...


I have always played you gain the AP and increase your mp pool. As mp can be actually spent how you want and you may be just playing the card to meet the requirements of another , which you wish to use before you move.

I have seen MGC clarifications that have been overturned due to confusion over what theory were answering.

This is why it is about time MGC have an upto date published (living FAQ)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Judy Krauss
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
but I'm not the only one
badge
My hands are small, I know, but they're not yours, they are my own
mbmbmbmbmb
Mistermannindy wrote:
...
If I play a Sprint card, I gain 3 additional MP to spend however I want - but I must use it before increasing AP by 1. Once I've spent the MP (my choice on how to spend), I increase the AP by 1 and lose any unspent MP.


I disagree with this.

MCG has stated more than once that Movement Points do not have to be spent all at once and can be used (and yes, even split up) at will during the Hero Cycle, but that a Hero must have one movement type chosen that is applied to the movement requirements/bonus/penalty section of each Hero card played by that Hero during that Hero Cycle.

If a Move card (like Hustle or Sprint) is played at any time during the Hero Cycle, then that Hero is considered to be moving Aggressively for the entire Hero Cycle (even before the card was played -- that's why a player needs to plan ahead for each Hero Cycle). The Movement points gained by playing a Move card are added to the "pool" of available Movement Points that the Hero has and can be used at any time (following rules for legitimate movement and/or non-combat actions) during that Hero Cycle (which doesn't end until the Hero Deck Phase -- a Darkness Cycle does NOT end a Hero Cycle, but can interrupt it).


EDIT: About whether any of the MP gained by Hustle or Sprint can be used BEFORE the AP is added to the Darkness Track, that is less clear.
The rule is that a played card or combo should be fully resolved before the Darkness triggers (or before another card is played). But are these cards fully resolved as soon as the MP is added to the Hero's Movement Points "pool" OR should the Hero be able to use all or some of those MP before the AP is added? The way the text on those cards is worded is ambiguous.
My personal judgement/preference is to allow use of any Movement Points when a card is played that has the Move keyword -- before any AP is added to the Darkness Track -- just because they are "Move" cards. BUT, I also see the reasoning in stating that the "Move" card has been fully resolved when the MP have been "gained" (meaning added to the MP pool of the Hero).

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MM
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
.... Yet another ambiguity with Myth. I guess without any official response we'll revert to the Megacon golden rule of "play it however you want".
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Price
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
If you accept MCG's ruling, then this is pretty clear.

CarelessOpossum wrote:
From the megacon forums (posted last year)

http://megacongames.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1028/two-ga...


Question Presented:

1. If a player spends a hustle card to gain MP that moves from the darkness from five to six, can he utilize his movement points as non-combat actions before the darkness activates? This was primarily for closing the trapdoor. We played it as a yes, but there was disagreement.


Kenny's Response:

A hero card is fully resolved before activating the darkness. So you would be able to use the mp.
2 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jerry Tresman
United Kingdom
Christchurch
Dorset
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
rpvt wrote:
If you accept MCG's ruling, then this is pretty clear.

CarelessOpossum wrote:
From the megacon forums (posted last year)

http://megacongames.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1028/two-ga...


Question Presented:

1. If a player spends a hustle card to gain MP that moves from the darkness from five to six, can he utilize his movement points as non-combat actions before the darkness activates? This was primarily for closing the trapdoor. We played it as a yes, but there was disagreement.


Kenny's Response:

A hero card is fully resolved before activating the darkness. So you would be able to use the mp.



I think you are missing the point the hero card is fully resolved once MP are added to the Hero's movement pool for that Hero Cycle and I believe implied but not added to Kennys comment that Hero completes his action , which may be to just store or maybe to spend MP.

All references to MP gained ,as Judy and I pointed out , are that they are added to the pool and can be used at any time during the Hero Cycle. The card played to add MP , unless otherwise stated , means the Hero is carrying out an agressive move , even if the hero doesn't move.

This is a situation eeasily managed and is not as big a deal as many would think.

Recommendation

Play the card add the MP to the Hero's pool then spend 0 - all MP in pool and finally increase the AP.

All normal rules apply. Even if MGC disagree with this but I have a feeling they won't , I will play this way for two reasons A) its not a big deal and B) keeping track of when you spend the MP gained from that card as opposed to MP already in the Hero's pool will ruin the flow for IMO no real purpose.

Page 12 Rules 2.0 Glossary wrote:

Move: This card grants the hero additional movement points, and the hero is
considered to be using aggressive movement.



I also have no issue with he Golden Rule - used in the spirit it is intended e.g. to have fun playing the game. If you want the emotional hit from winning a tightly governed contenst of skill or logic then Myth probably is not for you stick to Euros , Poker , the odd Ameritrash or sports. If you want a fun, escape from normal life, narritive rich, co operative or solo time then Myth probably is for you.

This does not mean MGC are off the hook as far as providing a reasonably unambiguous , clear and understandable rulebook , quests and campaigns. I think they are improving but do have some roadblocks which they are finally overcoming . Consistent Terminology (that is in theme) and willingness to entertain positive critisism. However they are engaged with us to provide creative, fun and challenging eperiences.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MM
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Starman54 wrote:
I also have no issue with he Golden Rule - used in the spirit it is intended e.g. to have fun playing the game. If you want the emotional hit from winning a tightly governed contenst of skill or logic then Myth probably is not for you stick to Euros , Poker , the odd Ameritrash or sports. If you want a fun, escape from normal life, narritive rich, co operative or solo time then Myth probably is for you.


For sure. Have fun is what this is all about.

To a certain degree, I think people tend to want to play "the right way" or "the way it was designed". I know I struggled with this big time when first trying to figure this game out. IF people can get over the notion of playing "the right way" and instead embrace playing it "your way", the frustration levels go way down. At least that was my experience. If you are or your group has a "rules lawyer" you might have challenges playing this game.

Starman54 wrote:
This does not mean MGC are off the hook as far as providing a reasonably unambiguous , clear and understandable rulebook , quests and campaigns.


Amen Jerry! Hopefully attitudes are improving at McG. I find it lazy designing when the corporate line is "play it however you want". This is especially true when it exists only to mask poorly worded and sometimes incoherent concepts and rules. This "Golden Rule", unfortunately becomes the norm rather than the exception.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.