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Mansions of Madness: Second Edition» Forums » General

Subject: Push... why ever use normal move? rss

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Day Life
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Well not quite.. I get that a "move action" can take you 2 spaces and you can take actions in the middle of it.. even so a "push action" you to move 1 space but take an investigator with you.

I'm about to start my 1st session but reading the rules it seams to me that you basically want to do push actions, at least at the start of the game as it allows the pushed investigator to move additional spaces. You can even tier, as in do multiple pushes on the same investigator and that person as the last to do anything has 2 actions and is DEEP into the dungeon.

Do you guys use the push action a lot? Am I misunderstanding the push action?
 
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Owen Sullivan
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When you push an investigator, they move 1 space, but your character doesn't move at all. So you are really losing 1 move as a group when you use a push action.
 
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Day Life
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lordevilthefirst wrote:
When you push an investigator, they move 1 space, but your character doesn't move at all. So you are really losing 1 move as a group when you use a push action.


Actually I believe you are mistaken on that...

P14 Reference Guide - PUSH ACTION wrote:
5) Resolve Movement: The monster or chosen investigator moves 1 space toward the chosen space. Then the active investigator may move 1 space toward the chosen space.


emphasis is mine
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David Bell
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The push action is a lot more useful than the rulebook seems to expect, but it's not always what you want to do.

If investigator A spends both actions moving, he'll go 4 spaces on his turn. If investigator B spends both actions moving, she'll also go 4 spaces on her turn, for a total of 8 spaces of movement among the two of them.

On the other hand, if investigator A pushes B twice, they'll both move 2 spaces, then if investigator B pushes A twice, they'll move 2 more spaces, for a total of 8 spaces among the two of them.

In terms of just raw movement, it comes out the same, so it's entirely up to the situation to determine which is more useful. It's often useful, for example, to shove someone one space to something they can interact with, so that they can spend both actions searching it. Or shove an investigator through a door so they can attack twice.

On the other hand, if you're still early in the investigation, you might not know who needs to go where yet, so it's often useful to just take regular movement actions to sort of hedge your bets; you won't always want your investigators to move in lockstep.
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Owen Sullivan
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DayinDaLife wrote:
lordevilthefirst wrote:
When you push an investigator, they move 1 space, but your character doesn't move at all. So you are really losing 1 move as a group when you use a push action.


Actually I believe you are mistaken on that...

P14 Reference Guide - PUSH ACTION wrote:
5) Resolve Movement: The monster or chosen investigator moves 1 space toward the chosen space. Then the active investigator may move 1 space toward the chosen space.


emphasis is mine

My mistake then.
 
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Danny Frahm
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P14 Reference Guide - PUSH ACTION wrote:
5) Resolve Movement: The monster or chosen investigator moves 1 space toward the chosen space. Then the active investigator may move 1 space toward the chosen space.


Dude you blew my mind.
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Nicola Zee
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FinalAttack wrote:
P14 Reference Guide - PUSH ACTION wrote:
5) Resolve Movement: The monster or chosen investigator moves 1 space toward the chosen space. Then the active investigator may move 1 space toward the chosen space.


Dude you blew my mind.

Push is described in the rules as a little used action but it can be key to winning the game. For example, if two investigators are in a space with a monster and both want to escape, a good strategy is for the one with the highest agility to push the other out of the space. Then, there will be one evade test needed instead of two. The pusher will need to do an evade as they performed an action and a voluntary move but the pushed will not as they have not performed an action or a move they initiated.
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Dean Love
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DayinDaLife wrote:
Well not quite.. I get that a "move action" can take you 1 spaces


A move action takes you two spaces. We played that wrong first game too.
 
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Day Life
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that was actually a typo.. sorry.. yeah it is 2 spaces!
 
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Paul C
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Nicola Zee wrote:
FinalAttack wrote:
P14 Reference Guide - PUSH ACTION wrote:
5) Resolve Movement: The monster or chosen investigator moves 1 space toward the chosen space. Then the active investigator may move 1 space toward the chosen space.


Dude you blew my mind.

Push is described in the rules as a little used action but it can be key to winning the game. For example, if two investigators are in a space with a monster and both want to escape, a good strategy is for the one with the highest agility to push the other out of the space. Then, there will be one evade test needed instead of two. The pusher will need to do an evade as they performed an action and a voluntary move but the pushed will not as they have not performed an action or a move they initiated.


I have played every scenario and never once even thought of pushing. However this actually sounds kind of useful now. I must try it in my next session. Brings to mind a certain Curtis Mayfield song...... From the movie Superfly.......showing my age.....I'll get my coat.
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Michael Pittman
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I have used push a few times in my games, but didn't realise you could push and move along with the character. I usually shove someone into a monster so they can attack twice, but it's worth knowing that it can work the other way too. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Day Life
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DreadFool wrote:
I usually shove someone into a monster so they can attack twice


Savage!!
 
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Paul S
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Kinda cheesy though, I think. Can't imagine this was designed for pushing other players. Thematically it's ropey. Though if I lose s2 again I might have to try it ninja
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Rob S
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Nicola Zee wrote:
FinalAttack wrote:
P14 Reference Guide - PUSH ACTION wrote:
5) Resolve Movement: The monster or chosen investigator moves 1 space toward the chosen space. Then the active investigator may move 1 space toward the chosen space.


Dude you blew my mind.

Push is described in the rules as a little used action but it can be key to winning the game. For example, if two investigators are in a space with a monster and both want to escape, a good strategy is for the one with the highest agility to push the other out of the space. Then, there will be one evade test needed instead of two. The pusher will need to do an evade as they performed an action and a voluntary move but the pushed will not as they have not performed an action or a move they initiated.


I don't have the rules in front of me but I thought there were some distinctions between being pushed willingly or resisting (which results in an opposing dice roll) and I imagine whether you have to conduct an evade check or not may be one of them.
 
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Eery Petrol
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I've played eight sessions of this game and only after reading this thread do I realise that the move action can be used to move two spaces, not just one -_-... This game is going to get a whole lot easier I think.
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Peter Cobcroft
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I'm thinking this is more like a "grab my hand and run with me" than a push.
 
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William Roop
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Beloch wrote:
Kinda cheesy though, I think. Can't imagine this was designed for pushing other players. Thematically it's ropey. Though if I lose s2 again I might have to try it ninja


Actually the rule book sort of covers this. It says you use the PUSH action to move a monster or carry a fellow investigator. (paraphrased) I guess you could also say you ran up and shoved the character instead. I had a character in a room with nothing to do that had broken leg and twisted ankle.. couldn't move 1 round and took damage to move too. If an investigator would have been with me, he could have PUSHED me into a room that I could actually interact with something on my activation. As it was I just sat there in the fire and watched the mob swarm me...
 
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Paul S
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Beholm wrote:
Beloch wrote:
Kinda cheesy though, I think. Can't imagine this was designed for pushing other players. Thematically it's ropey. Though if I lose s2 again I might have to try it ninja


Actually the rule book sort of covers this. It says you use the PUSH action to move a monster or carry a fellow investigator. (paraphrased) I guess you could also say you ran up and shoved the character instead. I had a character in a room with nothing to do that had broken leg and twisted ankle.. couldn't move 1 round and took damage to move too. If an investigator would have been with me, he could have PUSHED me into a room that I could actually interact with something on my activation. As it was I just sat there in the fire and watched the mob swarm me...


I'd buy that - in the particular circs you mention. But not for a perfectly healthy investigator.
 
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Push is a great action for all the reasons listed here. You pretty much have to think of it as just another form of movement and consider it every time you move from a space with another investigator.
 
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John Aronis
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I think of it as more a group cautious advance thematically. It is just a different type of moving to maximise useful actions.
 
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Grif Grif
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AngryPuppy wrote:
Nicola Zee wrote:
FinalAttack wrote:
P14 Reference Guide - PUSH ACTION wrote:
5) Resolve Movement: The monster or chosen investigator moves 1 space toward the chosen space. Then the active investigator may move 1 space toward the chosen space.


Dude you blew my mind.

Push is described in the rules as a little used action but it can be key to winning the game. For example, if two investigators are in a space with a monster and both want to escape, a good strategy is for the one with the highest agility to push the other out of the space. Then, there will be one evade test needed instead of two. The pusher will need to do an evade as they performed an action and a voluntary move but the pushed will not as they have not performed an action or a move they initiated.


I don't have the rules in front of me but I thought there were some distinctions between being pushed willingly or resisting (which results in an opposing dice roll) and I imagine whether you have to conduct an evade check or not may be one of them.


From the Rules Reference:

If an investigator in a monster’s space attempts to move out of the
monster’s space voluntarily
or perform any action other than the
attack action or move action, that investigator must resolve an
evade check against the monster in his space.


If pushing another investigator, that
investigator chooses to move willingly or to resist the movement.


If an investigator willingly wants to be pushed out of the monster's space, does that count as attempting to move out of the monster's space voluntarily ? Hmm, I'm not sure.
 
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Day Life
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yes.. it is pretty clear imo... the rules as you quoted them say that if you agree to "be pushed" that is a "willing move"... end of story. Not sure how it can be interpreted differently.

It says it right there.. "that investigator chooses to move willingly"... not very ambiguous imo.
 
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Paul S
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DayinDaLife wrote:
yes.. it is pretty clear imo... the rules as you quoted them say that if you agree to "be pushed" that is a "willing move"... end of story. Not sure how it can be interpreted differently.

It says it right there.. "that investigator chooses to move willingly"... not very ambiguous imo.


Not so, it seems. See:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/24600257#24600257
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Day Life
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then it is just another example of FFG having some of the worst rules books in the entire scene
 
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Nicola Zee
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DayinDaLife wrote:
then it is just another example of FFG having some of the worst rules books in the entire scene

FFG's rule books are not great and IMHO the rulebook for second edition is even worse than the first edition but then again I have reached a point where I expect the rules for most board games to be at the very least confusing and sometimes contradictory. That's where the helpful posters on BGG provide an invaluable service to board gamers!
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