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Subject: MYTH: Elite Monsters rss

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Tobias Loeffler
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With JM upon (most of whistle) us, I was thinking about, how to keep the "old" monster types relevant. Sure, we get the commanders, that will work as "buffers", but I've been toying around with a simple idea: Putting equipment cards on captains and mini-bosses to create elite versions.


Elite Captains


- Double vitality of the captain.
- Draw from the green item deck until you get a weapon matching the attack type (melee, ranged).
- Add the D10 and FD of the weapon to all attack rolls of that captain. Allow fate recipes to trigger from the weapon as well, if applicable. Both weapon and monster FD recipes can trigger from the same attack.
- When the captain is defeated, picking up the treasure token will grant the weapon card instead of a treasure draw.

Elite Mini-Boss

- Raise AP by an additional 1 during each refresh phase.
- Draw from the blue item deck until you get a weapon matching the attack type (melee, ranged).
- Add the D10 and FD of the weapon to all attack rolls of that mini-boss. Allow fate recipes to trigger from the weapon as well, if applicable. Both weapon and monster FD recipes can trigger from the same attack.
- When the mini-boss is defeated, picking up the treasure token will grant the weapon card instead of a treasure draw.

Optional modifiers

- Armored: Draw from the green (captain) or blue (mini-boss) item deck until you find an armor card. Apply all boni. Heroes still only get the weapon item, when this elite is defeated.

- Instinct: Add the following ability: Natural Reflexes: 1 additional success is required to hit this monster.

- Intellect: Add the following ability: Tactician: When an attack of this monster fails, add all dice from the failed attack roll to the next attack roll of this monster.

- Undead: Add the following ability: Strength from Beyond: This monster ignores the first point of damage from all sources, that don't have the "Holy" or "Fire" keyword.

Spawning rules

When a captain spawns / enters play, the hero with the highest threat rolls a D10. If the result is less than his / her current threat the spawned captain becomes an elite.
The max number of elite captains on a tile = Hero number / 2 (rounded up)

When a mini-boss spawns / enters play, the hero with the highest threat rolls a D10. If the result is less than his / her current threat the spawned mini-boss becomes an elite.
There can only ever be one elite mini-boss on a tile.

Item fate recipe rules

A short table, how to convert most of the fate recipes on weapons / armor into something, monster can use. Plus damage, vitality, TN etc.
benefits both heroes and monsters. So these things don't need to be changed.

anything reducing AP -> Add AP to the darkness meter
anything affecting "handsize" -> Monster gains one additional attack
anything affecting "Shadows" -> Monster gains Shadows X (roll a D10)
anything affecting "ongoings" -> Monster heals 1 vitality
anything affecting "lairs" -> 1 minion of the elite's monster type enters play immediately on the tile edge closest to the elite.
anything affecting "dash" -> Monster moves again after attacking
anything affecting "threat" -> The target of the monster's attack gains 2 threat.

Lots of edits for typos and same additional rules. Sorry! Enjoy!
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Eugenio Andrés
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Love it! We may try it!
 
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DrProfHazzmatt
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I think instead of drawing from the treasure decks, maybe a new deck could be created (Cause we don't have enough of them already). It'd simply be a modifier deck for the encounter.

So at the beginning of the act/tile/whatever you'd draw a card (or two or three) and those modifiers are in effect for whatever duration was settled upon above.

So maybe you draw a card and it says:

Fortified - All Minions and Captains have +1 Vitality

I see you want to include interactions with fate recipes which is your reasoning for adding equipment for them but my concern with that is that a Soulless could end up getting that longbow that your archer has really been hoping for. Fate recipes could easily be added to these modifier cards to do things much like the Item Fate Recipe changes you suggested. So you could have something like:

Fortified - All Minions and Captains have +1 Vitality.
[Darkness] - Increase the AP by 1.

These cards would definitely work better for freeform adventuring I think. It's a scalable difficulty curve that isn't really beholden to a storyline that might have a set challenge level for different points of the game. It reminds me a lot of Great Rifts from Diablo III or the new Challenge Dungeons from World of Warcraft where additional modifiers are added to enemies as you progress to higher dungeon/rift levels.
 
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Tobias Loeffler
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Thanks for your feedback: I think you missed the point, that you get the item card the monster was using if you defeat it. So there isn't really anything lost for the heroes. In fact all elites provide you with a guaranteed green / blue item, which is a pretty big thing, IMHO.

The other reason, why I wanted to use the item deck, was that it already provides a lot of different modifiers without having to create new cards. This makes each elite a bit unique and with each new item expansion you get more cool monster effects without much effort.

I've played with these rules for quite some time and it works really smooth. The rules for the fate recipes are new, as I realized people may need some guidelines for this. But you can use whatever you see fit or only use the additional D10s and FDs (although that is only half the fun).

Adding a unique item to a monster also has the neat effect, that it suddenly gains quite a bit more "personality".

Be warned though, that those elites can really f*** a party up. Especially undead elite captains become a nightmare with their damage reduction, doubled vitality and the "right" item...
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DrProfHazzmatt
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My only concern really lies with the fate recipe rules. It adds a whole bunch of "if/unless" rules to the game. "It does X UNLESS Y then it does Z" or "IF A is happening then B occurs". Too many conditional rules can be hard to remember.

How does the inclusion of elites dropping equipment play into the loot acquisition already built into the game? Does it possibly cause a glut of equipment? Or does the guaranteed item replace a treasure drop token for a captain for example?
 
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Tobias Loeffler
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When you kill an elite you place a treasure marker as usual. When you pick up that treasure marker, you gain the item used by the elite instead of drawing from the treasure bag. That's the "plus" you gain for fighting tougher monsters.

I don't really understand what you mean by "if / unless"-rules. 90% of the items work pretty straight forward and in case you don't know what to do with a fate recipe, just ignore it.

Let's say you get an Elite Murker with a Long Sword. The stats would be:

- Vitality 6
- Attack dice pool of 4D10 and 2FD (2D10 and 1FD from the Longsword).
- If you decide to play with the additional modifiers you would draw an green armor item for him as he is "armored" - most likely resulting in a bit more vitality.

And that's it.

He will be a threat to be reckoned with. Attacking 2x with 4D10 and 2FD,
proning enemies on a Darkness result and adding 1 AP on a Rage result (longsword).
But hey, that's why it's called "Elite"


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Paul Kelly
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Great idea - hints of Massive Darkness influence maybe???

I think the percieved problem with the Fate reciepes is what order to reference them in, for example, you have a monster with an ability that works on Darkness and also a weapon, which gets activated first - my take would be to add the weapon reciepe(s) to the top of the monsters list so they will be chosen last if at all, the monster is more likely to use it's natural more familiar powers after all.

I also think that you could give the choice of which item to select if the monster has armour and a weapon say, discarding the one not chosen (going to be some tough choices I bet)

As always more interesting ways to approach Myth thanks for sharing.
 
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DrProfHazzmatt
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Okay, so fighting elite monsters just guarantees better loot. Seems reasonable to me.

In terms of the "if/unless" rules I'll try to provide an example.

The longsword has a recipe where "IF you roll a rage, -1 AP" according to the base rules. If we include your elite rules it now reads "IF you roll a rage, -1AP UNLESS the item is held by a monster. Then +1 AP."

The elite monster rules effectively doubles the number of use cases you need to remember for each item.
 
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Tobias Loeffler
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Khali wrote:
Great idea - hints of Massive Darkness influence maybe???

I think the percieved problem with the Fate reciepes is what order to reference them in, for example, you have a monster with an ability that works on Darkness and also a weapon, which gets activated first - my take would be to add the weapon reciepe(s) to the top of the monsters list so they will be chosen last if at all, the monster is more likely to use it's natural more familiar powers after all.

I also think that you could give the choice of which item to select if the monster has armour and a weapon say, discarding the one not chosen (going to be some tough choices I bet)

As always more interesting ways to approach Myth thanks for sharing.


TBH, I think there is nearly no FD overlap between items and monster's FD attack abilities:

Green item fate recipes rarely include darkness symbols while all monster attack abilities of captains are triggered on darkness symbols only.

For the blue items it's cool as well. There is only 1 mini-boss (Keesi & Og) atm (I don't know about JM) that even uses FD attack abilities. So no real problem there either.
 
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Tobias Loeffler
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DrProfHazzmatt wrote:
Okay, so fighting elite monsters just guarantees better loot. Seems reasonable to me.

In terms of the "if/unless" rules I'll try to provide an example.

The longsword has a recipe where "IF you roll a rage, -1 AP" according to the base rules. If we include your elite rules it now reads "IF you roll a rage, -1AP UNLESS the item is held by a monster. Then +1 AP."

The elite monster rules effectively doubles the number of use cases you need to remember for each item.


You need the info, what an item is doing when equipped by a monster exactly in one case only: When it is equipped by a monster. It has absolutely no consequences on how a hero uses that item or what it does when equipped by a hero.
It's not an additional item rule, but an additional rule for using elite monsters.
 
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Tim Chase
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This idea is awesome! Love it!
 
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