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Cry Havoc» Forums » General

Subject: Questions about Trogs 'Disappear' ability and timing issues rss

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Alex Banks
United Kingdom
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The Trogs Disappear ability says you can remove a Trog figure to add a Trog War Party token to any unoccupied region. In a 4 player game yesterday the Trog player did this to place a War Party token in a Machine controlled area, as it was unoccupied (had no figures in, only a control token and 2 buildings).

First of all, is this legal? It seemed to be, based on the wording on the card.

Secondly, if the Machine player had then used the factory ability to recruit a unit into that area, I presume this would flip the token and start a battle.

If so, could the Machine player use Shred Drones in a neighbouring region as part of the same build action to immediately shred one of the Trogs? Or would all the build actions have to resolve before flipping the Trog token?

It didn't end up happening in our game, but I wasn't sure what we would have done if it had!
 
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James Mathias
United States
Hendersonville
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Alexthebanks wrote:
The Trogs Disappear ability says you can remove a Trog figure to add a Trog War Party token to any unoccupied region. In a 4 player game yesterday the Trog player did this to place a War Party token in a Machine controlled area, as it was unoccupied (had no figures in, only a control token and 2 buildings).

First of all, is this legal? It seemed to be, based on the wording on the card.

Secondly, if the Machine player had then used the factory ability to recruit a unit into that area, I presume this would flip the token and start a battle.

If so, could the Machine player use Shred Drones in a neighbouring region as part of the same build action to immediately shred one of the Trogs? Or would all the build actions have to resolve before flipping the Trog token?

It didn't end up happening in our game, but I wasn't sure what we would have done if it had!


Yes, this is a legal move.

Yes, this would result in a battle region.

Yes, your current action finishes, then battle regions are created.

So You would have to finish your build/activate action, then you would determine if any regions would become battle regions, based on what happened during your action.
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Alex Banks
United Kingdom
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Thanks for clarifying!

A follow up question then is, does that mean when the Trog player is spreading out across the map at the start doing their 'pied piper' thing, do they have to end their move in a space to flip the Trog token?

I thought I read somewhere that they didn't have to, just moving into a space triggers the token, but if they follow the above logic in resolving all actions first and then flipping tokens, I guess they would have to.
 
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James Mathias
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Alexthebanks wrote:
Thanks for clarifying!

A follow up question then is, does that mean when the Trog player is spreading out across the map at the start doing their 'pied piper' thing, do they have to end their move in a space to flip the Trog token?

I thought I read somewhere that they didn't have to, just moving into a space triggers the token, but if they follow the above logic in resolving all actions first and then flipping tokens, I guess they would have to.


Trogs do trigger their own tokens when moving into a space with unresolved tokens yes. But they do not, obviously create battle regions.
 
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Eric B
Canada
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Are you sure you would add Trog's units before the end of the current action. Allow me to explain.

It`s unclear because in the rule they only mention that you reveal tokens "At the end of the move action" (Page 7).

Now while I think it's unclear in the rule book I think I've seen it mentioned in the forum that it would trigger those tokens as well for these kind of scenarios, but would it be triggered before the end of the action? In this example, in the middle of the build action allowing the machine player to spawn a unit, flipping the token and then use a shred drone to kill the Trog player.

I'm not the game designer so I really don't know, but it's a bit of a stretch.

 
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James Mathias
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greasedonkey wrote:
Are you sure you would add Trog's units before the end of the current action. Allow me to explain.

It`s unclear because in the rule they only mention that you reveal tokens "At the end of the move action" (Page 7).

Now while I think it's unclear in the rule book I think I've seen it mentioned in the forum that it would trigger those tokens as well for these kind of scenarios, but would it be triggered before the end of the action? In this example, in the middle of the build action allowing the machine player to spawn a unit, flipping the token and then use a shred drone to kill the Trog player.

I'm not the game designer so I really don't know, but it's a bit of a stretch.



The tokens still only trigger after your chosen action is completed. Sorry if my response made it seem that wasn't the case.
 
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Eric B
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It's ok, no need to be sorry. I'm just trying to get the rules right.

Over the past month I've built a love-hate relationship with this game. I love the idea and in general I love it, but the rules man... every time there is something particular that is not covered and could be left for interpretation it kills me!

I think the FAQ was a step in the right direction, but it should have already been updated with all the things we've been getting answers for the past months.
 
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James Mathias
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greasedonkey wrote:
It's ok, no need to be sorry. I'm just trying to get the rules right.

Over the past month I've built a love-hate relationship with this game. I love the idea and in general I love it, but the rules man... every time there is something particular that is not covered and could be left for interpretation it kills me!

I think the FAQ was a step in the right direction, but it should have already been updated with all the things we've been getting answers for the past months.


I hear you. It's frustrating, 'cause the game is really great, but there has been and continues to be a ton of confusion about the rules, which could have likely been avoided with a skill and structure reference in the back of the manual.
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Alex Banks
United Kingdom
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Thanks James, but I think my question wasn't clear.

Basically lets say on my opening move as the Trogs I use 3 move actions. When I move one of my Trogs into an adjacent spot with a token in, is the token IMMEDIATELY flipped (so I can spend the rest of their 2 move actions with this new set of models)? Or is it only flipped once I have resolved all my other move actions?

This makes a difference to how far a Trog player could potentially spread on their opening move, and also raises questions about whether Trogs can move through token areas without triggering them.

I just ask because, based on the previous logic, surely the token flips happen at the end of the move? Or are they immune to this/another rule circumvents this?
 
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Graham Gass
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Per the rulebook, page 13:

If a Trog Unit enters a Region with a Trog War Party/ Nest token, immediately reveal the token and place all Crystals and Trog Units as usual. These Units are available to the Trog player for use, even during the current Movement Action if there are remaining Movement Points.
 
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