Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
55 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: Immigration or Integration rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
United States
Colorado
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Would the country be better off if people coming here were willing to integrate?
Is it bad for the country if people that come here want to essentially keep the country that they came from?
Should we even want people to come here that are unwilling to integrate into OUR society?

Is it even possible to mold our country into something that can accept and function with so many people that are not willing to integrate?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
casey r lowe
United States
butte
Montana
flag msg tools
mb
TheDashi wrote:
Would the country be better off if people coming here were willing to integrate?
Is it bad for the country if people that come here want to essentially keep the country that they came from?
Should we even want people to come here that are unwilling to integrate into OUR society?

Is it even possible to mold our country into something that can accept and function with so many people that are not willing to integrate?

people who dont want to integrate are bad for the country because we need more math proficiency not less
13 
 Thumb up
0.06
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
casey r lowe
United States
butte
Montana
flag msg tools
mb
i say kick everyone out who doesnt want to adapt to our common culture - starting with those indomitable amish
10 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cultural diversity is a strength, not a weakness. Why should people be forced to assimilate? Jews couldn't exist if we were.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Belgium
flag msg tools
Meaningless means there's a strong limit to how much I can mess up!
badge
This overtext is not in use.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't feel any special desire to give up things I enjoy just because they originated in my country of birth rather than here. It's not really what I'd consider integration, though I don't know how integrated Belgians would consider me (maybe I should get a Zwarte Piet costume?).

From discussions with more long term immigrants, it seems to be extremely difficult for most to pass on anything of their home country to their kids. It's at best very bitter-sweet.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Colorado
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
More specifically, I guess it is needed.
I am talking about people that want a socialist country.
People that want Sharia law.

People that want to fundamentally change the countries foudning values.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam I am
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
What did I tell you...
badge
NO PICKLE!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Values never change?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Colorado
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rcbevco wrote:
Values never change?


Then why come here, if you want this country to be like the country you are leaving?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J.D. Hall
United States
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
TheDashi wrote:
Would the country be better off if people coming here were willing to integrate?
Is it bad for the country if people that come here want to essentially keep the country that they came from?
Should we even want people to come here that are unwilling to integrate into OUR society?

Is it even possible to mold our country into something that can accept and function with so many people that are not willing to integrate?

Thoughtful questions. Deserve thoughtful answers.

I can't speak for other countries, but it is exceptionally rare immigrants (legal and otherwise) want to integrate somewhat into American society. They all admire the freedom of religion, of economic opportunity, of movement. That being said, it is extremely difficult for anyone immigrating to a new country to not want to hold onto some of the aspects of their home country in their new home. American ex-pats in other countries do the same thing. But none of them come here wanting to set up, say, a Germany in New York. Otherwise, why leave? They pick and choose -- as is every American's right -- to decide what parts of society they want to keep, and what they want to ignore. As long as they obey the secular law, it's nobody else's business. As for molding our country into something that can function with people not willing to integrate? There are separate threads here about the virulent white supremicists who, although having roots stretching back decades or even centuries, are unwilling to integrate into the larger society.

If you are specifically talking about South Americans or Muslims, you're trying to make a point that really doesn't exist. Both communities are pretty well integrated into American society, save for a few knuckleheads.

Now, if you're talking about "culture," well, I've never been able to define American culture. To me, it's a giant mish-mash that changes almost yearly. And frankly, I love it that way.

But these are good questions. We are a nation of immigrants in the main, and we will always be so.

EDIT: A final point I forgot to make. The success of immigrants integrating into American society depends as much as Americans willing to integrate them into society as much as the immigrants' desires to integrate.

And outside of a few knuckleheads, which Muslims (individuals or groups) are advocating Sharia law in the US? Or outside of us native Americans, who are advocating for a socialist government?

Dude, you're better than this.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
R. Frazier
United States
West Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
A man learns little by little in battle. Take this battle experience and become a man who can’t be beaten
badge
This flag says we will fight until only our bones are left.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheDashi wrote:
More specifically, I guess it is needed.
I am talking about people that want a socialist country.
People that want Sharia law.

People that want to fundamentally change the countries foudning values.


Well, we do have this:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.



To answer your question, I think people can be for whatever they want, socialism, certain religious restrictions, etc., etc. as long as they adhere to the constitution.

I do agree that both sharia law and other radical religious groups, such as radical Christianity are not compatible with the constitution in their purest forms, however as long as their adherents agree not to try to change the constitution (specifically the part about church/state separation) I think it's OK for them to have those beliefs as long as they don't try to take over the state with said beliefs.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam I am
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
What did I tell you...
badge
NO PICKLE!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheDashi wrote:
rcbevco wrote:
Values never change?


Then why come here, if you want this country to be like the country you are leaving?


What if people who have been here for generations want the change?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Dignam
United States
Lithia
FL
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Integration naturally happens if the culture of the people who immigrated is not in mass.

When a large amount of a single culture immigrates you get an isolated sub-culture of that group of people that doesn't need to integrate because they don't have to. They have enough enough of a support system built among themselves.

This has been pretty well written and studied.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J.D. Hall
United States
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
VikingBerserker wrote:
Integration naturally happens if the culture of the people who immigrated is not in mass.

When a large amount of a single culture immigrates you get an isolated sub-culture of that group of people that doesn't need to integrate because they don't have to. They have enough enough of a support system built among themselves.

This has been pretty well written and studied.

Yeah, look at all those damn Swedes and Norwegians in the Dakotas and Minnesota.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marco Mann
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Look at ex-pat communities (American, British, etc) throughout the world. They do exactly the same thing.

They don't necessarily want to change how their new country is governed, they just want to do things as they've always done things.

Some don't even bother to learn the local language.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Belgium
flag msg tools
Meaningless means there's a strong limit to how much I can mess up!
badge
This overtext is not in use.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
AttackFactorZero wrote:
Look at ex-pat communities (American, British, etc) throughout the world. They do exactly the same thing.

They don't necessarily want to change how their new country is governed, they just want to do things as they've always done things.

Some don't even bother to learn the local language.



You're implicitly picking only a sub-group of immigrants if you focus on ex-pat communities. People living in these kind of communities will be, by the very nature of these communities, will tend to be the least integrated ones.

I don't know if there's a British immigrant community here. I haven't noticed one, but I wouldn't be surprised if it exists.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
rico mcflico
United States
Mill Valley
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
whac3 wrote:
Cultural diversity is a strength, not a weakness. Why should people be forced to assimilate? Jews couldn't exist if we were.

Of course they could. Torah is a living document. You'd just need to interpret it in a more NASCAR-affirming, Walmart-friendly way.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Woodcock
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
single sentences wrote:
i say kick everyone out who doesnt want to adapt to our common culture - starting with those indomitable amish



Downright deplorable they are....



Ferret
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Woodcock
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
rcbevco wrote:
Values never change?


Not really the good ones.....


Ferret
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Schoell
United States
Rochester
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Integration includes keeping elements of cultures of origin. There is nothing about integration that requires one to discard an old culture.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Ottawa
Ontario
msg tools
Avatar
Multiculturalism is amazing! Moral and cultural relativism is the best! Just ask Jewish people in the U.K. who now know, thanks to polls, that 25 percent of the Muslims coming into the country hate them and one third of them believe Jews have too much power. Or what about homosexuals? They now know that half of British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal. Yay! Multiculturalism!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam I am
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
What did I tell you...
badge
NO PICKLE!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ferretman wrote:
rcbevco wrote:
Values never change?


Not really the good ones.....


Ferret


That depends on historical context and long periods of time. Some values disappear because they should. New ones can come along and replace older ones too. Are the old values inherently better because they are "old"?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete Goch
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheDashi wrote:
More specifically, I guess it is needed.
I am talking about people that want a socialist country.
People that want Sharia law.

People that want to fundamentally change the countries foudning values.


I agree. The religious right really need to assimilate better to our deist founding fathers values.


Translation for the mentally challenged: if we, the so called "natives" of this country can't agree on what the "core" values of this country are supposed to be then expecting immigrants to "assimilate" is completely asinine. Assimilate to which vision?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J.D. Hall
United States
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
broken clock wrote:
Multiculturalism is amazing! Moral and cultural relativism is the best! Just ask Jewish people in the U.K. who now know, thanks to polls, that 25 percent of the Muslims coming into the country hate them and one third of them believe Jews have too much power. Or what about homosexuals? They now know that half of British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal. Yay! Multiculturalism!

I'd guess you'd get equally shocking numbers if they polled UK whites on the same subjects.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Ottawa
Ontario
msg tools
Avatar
remorseless1 wrote:
broken clock wrote:
Multiculturalism is amazing! Moral and cultural relativism is the best! Just ask Jewish people in the U.K. who now know, thanks to polls, that 25 percent of the Muslims coming into the country hate them and one third of them believe Jews have too much power. Or what about homosexuals? They now know that half of British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal. Yay! Multiculturalism!

I'd guess you'd get equally shocking numbers if they polled UK whites on the same subjects.


No. You would not. But feel free to show me otherwise . . .
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Bartosh

Sunnyvale
California
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, this gets at a much tougher to answer question: what exactly are anti-American values?

In broad terms, however, I do actually agree. Some degree of willingness to integrate is necessary for a functional society.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.