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Subject: Optimal way to go through all expansions rss

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The Awaited King
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Hi, I was wondering if there is an optimal way to experience the expansions. I want to cram them into as few campaings as possible to get a fell of all of them but I know some of them don't interact well with others.

1. Vanilla PotL Campaign - not completed, but had bad luck and this particular group of players lost interest, so... yeah...

2. PotL Campaign + 3 knights + Lonely Tree - playing now and doing very well I think we will finish it this time, I think I could have added Gorm or Spidicules here, but since the previous campaign was lost I play with new people I wanted them to experience basic monsters and just added 3 knights to have some fun and something new for myself

Next I plan to go with:

3. People Of the Sun - I think I can add Spidicules here and... that's it? Would be great to add Gorm to not hunt Lions again, but it's gear is heavy so that's a no?

Also can't add Slenderman or Manhunter, because they are Nemesis? If you add Slender or Manhunter does loosing against them count as game over or is the "nemesis defeat = game over" rule only applied with the final years Nemesis Monsters on the timeline?

I think didn't read much fluff till on these monsters but it seems like Slenderman (darkness) fits well with the Sunstalker theme of lights and shadows


4. Peopole of the Stars - in the book it's written that it's not designed to work with expansions. Did you play with any? Could I add Gorm here? Or one of the Nemesis I have left - Slender/Manhunter? Or maybe both?



So as you can see I have a problem with Gorm, Slender and Manhunter, but that would mean I have to start 5th campaign featuring those three and I think PotSun and Stars would take me a whole 2017 to finish.

And by then there would be probbly more expansions... so... damn! I need to keep up with those and I really don't have so much time. Any suggestions?

Also would you play Stars of Sun first?

Edit: I didn't include Lion God above because I heard it's unplayable as a regular quarry, but I was thinking about trying myself against it after winning any of the campaigns, as a sort of bonus boss.
 
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The Awaited King
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Styfen wrote:

Gorm is fine, it's only the armour you cannot wear, you can still use everything else (even the Greater Gaxe). This is because PotSun cannot 'wear' heavy gear, but weapons, potions etc are not worn, they are carried. Technically the Rolling Armour (DBK) is not worn either, it is carried so by the rules of the game as they stand, you can argue that Rolling Armour is allowable. (TBH, the way it looks, it's got a lot of exposed skin, so thematically that matches).


Ok, so I basically loose Gorm armour, but I wouldn't be able to wear White Lion Armour anyway, because it's also heavy.

So it seems I will play:

- Lattern + 3 knights + Tree
- Sun + Gorm + Spidicules (with Antelopee) + Lion God
- Stars + Gorm? + Manhunter


Damn with that Slender! I really want to test him, but there seems to be no good way to do this! Maybe I will just add it to the current campaign? I'm just worried that between 3 knights and all the regular fights it will be too much.

Any other suggestions?

EDIT: It seems that Sun campaign it constructed in such a way that you don't deal with any Nemesis before year 21, so the "Nemesis fail = game over" rule seems to be designed to make this 5 last years hell as you wrote. Would it make houserulling that Slenderman is not Nemesis when considering this rule too much? Or are there any more repercussions I don't see? Or maybe you just need this years of peace to prepare for the 5 final years?
 
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Nick Wirtz
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It's about preparing to run that gauntlet. I expect earlier nemeses wouldn't be a problem to cheat on.
 
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Matt Onyx
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Slenderman would have to be houseruled into a PotSun campaign anyway. His instructions for adding him to a new campaign are that he replaces Armored Strangers, and even that doesn't exist in PotSun.
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Endevor Rovedne
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I anted to launcha people of the bloom using new nemesis and quarry too.

Do you have a suggestion?
 
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IA Seldon
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Poor Spidicules, he gets so little love. Not a little as the Lonely Tree...but she's used to that.

Spidy is probably best set into PotBloom, and the thing about him that apparently no-one likes is the way his ending event works. Here's the thing, though: his gear takes multiple hunts to acquire. There are a few items that can feasibly be made after a single hunt, but it usually takes more than one hunt to purchase anything else from his location.

If you go Spidicules, you cannot second-guess it. You either hunt him relentlessly or you don't add him to the game at all. The ending event becomes rather moot, really, and is far less bothersome to deal with than hunting a level 2-3 Gorm, which is pretty much an auto-include expansion wise.

But never hunt a Spidicules at less than level 2. Just not worth the bother unless you can get a legless ball to roll back home.
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Alessio Massuoli
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Well, to be sincere, the biggest issue with Spidicules is that it replaces the Antelope, that has key interactions with a lot of other expansions (I am aware that you can trick the game and yourself by adding it AFTER LY2, but come on you can also draw another Settlement Event because you got Murder three years in a row - you twist something to have better choices ahead - good for you, but if we have to estabilish common ground, we can't talk of variants or workarounds).

Myself, I enjoy Spidicules, but I always double check that it does not get in the way of other expansions (see: Lion Knight, Sunstalker as quarry).

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Henry Akeley
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Also the cost is prohibitive. It costs the same as Sunstalker with far less content. Can't justify that.
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Alessio Massuoli
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@Henry: in that case, the cost is the least problem. You get the 6 baby Spidicules, a "placeholder" naked male mini and a lot of cards in addition to the Gorm, and the miniature itself occupies one sprue more, so the cost is high, but it is justified (of course, just from a content perspective, not from a _game_ content perspective). Fun fact: only Gorm (1) and Spidicules (3) add Settlement Events.

@fen: yes, this has been discussed thoroughly. Personally, I categorize Spidicules as an expansion that changes the game to be more difficult, just like I consider Flower Knight one that makes the game too easy. Both can find a place in a campaign, and both campaigns will end up considerably altered by the addition.
Making the game more difficult by replacing the Antelope is somewhat a smart change (that is poorly designed in the integration with other expansions, though), making it more difficult by means of Taken and Young Rivals is clumsy at best, inacceptable at worst.
The rest is not that disturbing, but I agree that one may find the expansion lacking. Like I said, I always evaluate its addition, whereas Gorm would be a no-brainer (I got used to Gorm Climate).
 
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IA Seldon
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I can see some of the points with the gear and the model (especially the model. It's just too much pain in the ass to put on the board.)

But I never found myself as attached to the SA as everyone else seems to be. Yeah, I get it, some of the gear is good and you need the SA to unlock 90% of the Barber Surgeon gear...but I almost never get to the Barber Surgeon gear in time for it to do me any good.

And, let's be honest, the Grinning Visage is by far one of the best offensive shields in the game. Couple the Spidy with a PotBloom where getting the Vespertine Bow is quite easy, and you get the legless ball quite handily.

There is a reason I put the Spidy in the PotBloom campaign. It balances the op weapons out with a challenging pre-Phoenix fight that is quite fun.

Young Rivals, as I see it, is a good way to pick up a death principle in year two without the bother of having to lose a survivor in an actual showdown. Because, lets face it, unless you've had some horrible die rolls or events, veterans of the game can go quite a few years without losing a single survivor. Hell, hands up, who doesn't willingly sacrifice one survivor in the prologue fight of a campaign just to ensure that they automatically start year one with the death principle? I know I do, unless Spidy is in the game.
 
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Henry Akeley
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t3clis wrote:
@Henry: in that case, the cost is the least problem. You get the 6 baby Spidicules, a "placeholder" naked male mini and a lot of cards in addition to the Gorm, and the miniature itself occupies one sprue more, so the cost is high, but it is justified (of course, just from a content perspective, not from a _game_ content perspective). Fun fact: only Gorm (1) and Spidicules (3) add Settlement Events.


Yes I suspected the fact that a total of 11 models included would be the push-back on the cost aspect of Spidicules. However lets be real here. Compare to a similarly priced but much more well done and designed expansion such as Sunstalker.

Sunstalker:

7 models
Sunstalker AI cards
Fighting Arts
Secret Fighting Arts
Disorders
Weapon Specialization
7 Innovations
An entire campaign

Gear Cards
3 Settlement Locations

Spidicules:
11 models
Spidicules AI cards
Fighting Arts
Spidicules AI cards
Fighting Arts (less)
Secret Fighting Arts (less)
Disorders
Innovations
Gear Cards
1 Settlement Location
2 Settlement Events
NO campaign.

Really the only thing Spidicules has over Sunstalker is more models and settlement events. Honestly, as much as I love the models, 7 from Sustalker is enough. Sunstalker heavily outweighs Spidy in terms of gear, settlement locations, options, more fighting arts, etc. And the big elephant in the room is the People of the Sun campaign which Spidy has no equivalent to. Simply put the SS just offers a lot more bang for your buck. The 4 extra models don't make up for the gulf of gameplay between them.

In all honesty I was really excited for Spidicules. Now I rank it as about equal to or barely above (like half a step above) the Lonely Tree.
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Alessio Massuoli
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No need to discuss this further, actually: pros and cons have been clearly outlined - I understand that the cons outweigh the pros for most people, I am okay with that. I just happen to like them anyway.

More than other expansions? I don't know. I like FK's content, but not a lot FK fight. Lion Knight is fun and challenging at times, other times is 'Meh...'. Slenderman feels unfair, but is the only nemesis that makes you CRAFT rewards (LK does something similar).

The expansion I like most is DBK. The second-best is Gorm. DK is third place for PoStars (KDBZ). Sunstalker is a distant fourth (I like half of the campaign changes (different innovation trees, different survival actions, different starting locations, timeline events) and don't like the other half (Ancient Sunstalker, timeline overall, most fighting arts, The Sun, the ending)), and don't like it a lot as a quarry because Prismatic on PoLantern feels a bit like cheating. The rest of expansions are all together in the group, and I pick a subset of them each time I start a new campaign. I usually always add the Lonely Tree (because it's an easy addition and a welcome distraction, if you don't play just to minmax), Spidicules can be added as easily as a Manhunter.


 
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Henry Akeley
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Styfen wrote:
t3clis wrote:
and don't like it a lot as a quarry because Prismatic on PoLantern feels a bit like cheating.

Have you played much with it? Because it's Prismatic on a set of armour that's paper thin in the late game, just because top end KD Players know how to abuse it at the most skilled edge of the meta doesn't mean that it's cheating. You might as well complain about Rolling Armour abuse or shield stacking.

It's only balance problem is Saviors, and that is the fault of saviors, not Prismatic.


Agreed. Prismatic is only (rightfully) broken/abusive when you have an actual Warrior of the Sun that you can only get from a PotSun campaign. Otherwise you're forced to wear a set of armor that offers only 1 point more of protection to all locations than rawhide. Its just the prismatic bonus and other evasion type bonuses (shimmering scales, etc) are what make Cycloid Scale armor worth crafting in later years.
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Alessio Massuoli
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(on cellphone, so I will keep it short).
Played it once, and it's actually very good (I don't have extremely high armor in two survivors in a party, and cycloid set is a killer in a lot of combos (that you both suggested in multiple posts)).

Anyway, it is not _broken_, it just feels a bit undeserved, especially on a green saviors (but blue ones are snipers, too ).

I actually like a lot how this game is constructed and is perfectly modular: if you have the full choice, you can combine to create a lot of campaigns that feel very different.
 
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Drew Olds
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I like fighting spidicules, and don't see any problem with fighting a Lv1.

Yes, you lose some 1xp guy... I don't have a problem with that.

And Taken, I find, is largely a benefit. In practice, I find that it spreads around the XP- which means that we end up in pretty good shape as a settlement (I've had settlements die off because they lost their four best survivors, and everyone else was a no xp fool).


The gear is find for the level that you fight Spidicules (again, go ahead and start at lv 1). While you cannot complete his armor set until you're higher power level, the armor is good enough that it functions when it is not complete (one piece grants you a +1 to each arm location as an action).


I like it just as much as the gorm, and more than some of the other expansions.

I find myself seldom missing the things it cuts off from not hunting antelopes, but I also don't have an issue with hunting both in a campaign.




I like to rate expansions on how much they change the game- so I put them in this order:

- Dragon King and Sundstalker- for the new campaigns, as well as the fantastic quarries.

- Gorm and Spidicules- early quarries change the pace for the settlement a lot.

- Lion Knight- the mixed armor sets really change how a settlement chooses what to hunt.

- Flower Knight, Dung Beetle Knight- later quarries don't change gameplay as much as early ones

- Slenderman and Manhunter- can change a settlement, but aren't likely to define a settlement

- Lonely Tree- Doesn't impact the game very much- you could add it to a campaign and never see the tree.

- Lion God- Such a late hunt, by the time you can hunt him, you may decide you don't want to.

- Green Knight Armor, Promo mini expansions- all of these are pretty minor in their impact on the game.
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François Mahieu
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Q1: Could someone remind me which expansion boxes lead to which campaigns, namely People of the Sun, Stars and Bloom? Thanks.

Q2: I plan to start a new campaign using:

Sunstalker box +
Lion God
Lion Knight
Spidicules
Lonely tree

Makes sense?

Later on, I'd start a new one using
Dragon box +
Gorm
Dung Beetle
Manhunter
Slenderman
 
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The Awaited King
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PoSun = Sunstalker
PoStars = Dragon King
PoBloom = Flower Knight
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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poifpoif wrote:
Q1: Could someone remind me which expansion boxes lead to which campaigns, namely People of the Sun, Stars and Bloom? Thanks.

Q2: I plan to start a new campaign using:

Sunstalker box +
Lion God
Lion Knight
Spidicules
Lonely tree

Makes sense?

Later on, I'd start a new one using
Dragon box +
Gorm
Dung Beetle
Manhunter
Slenderman


Don't ever put together Spidicules with Lion Knight if it's your first run, you will miss a lot of content from LK by replacing the Antelope.


My .02 would be to try expansions on PoLantern, not PoSun or PoStars.
Enjoy PoStars and PoSun alone, at least once. They are great.

Anyway (referring to PoLantern):

- Gorm is always OK
- the three Knights and the Green Armor can go together
- Lion God is always OK
- Spidicules does not go that well with Lion Knight, Sunstalker and Lion Knight quarry
- Slenderman is OK, but it changes the way you encounter nemeses, so it's not for beginners
- Manhunter is OK most of the time, can be put and removed easily, but if you struggle with your settlement it could be the fatal blow.
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François Mahieu
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t3clis wrote:
poifpoif wrote:
Q1: Could someone remind me which expansion boxes lead to which campaigns, namely People of the Sun, Stars and Bloom? Thanks.

Q2: I plan to start a new campaign using:

Sunstalker box +
Lion God
Lion Knight
Spidicules
Lonely tree

Makes sense?

Later on, I'd start a new one using
Dragon box +
Gorm
Dung Beetle
Manhunter
Slenderman


Don't ever put together Spidicules with Lion Knight if it's your first run, you will miss a lot of content from LK by replacing the Antelope.


My .02 would be to try expansions on PoLantern, not PoSun or PoStars.
Enjoy PoStars and PoSun alone, at least once. They are great.

Anyway (referring to PoLantern):

- Gorm is always OK
- the three Knights and the Green Armor can go together
- Lion God is always OK
- Spidicules does not go that well with Lion Knight, Sunstalker and Lion Knight quarry
- Slenderman is OK, but it changes the way you encounter nemeses, so it's not for beginners
- Manhunter is OK most of the time, can be put and removed easily, but if you struggle with your settlement it could be the fatal blow.


Very nice. Thanks a lot.
 
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