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Subject: Trump vs. Sanctuary Cities rss

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Chapel
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bjlillo wrote:


Here is a list of sanctuary cities in the US. There are about 300 of them. This map from Wikipedia shows some of the larger ones:




So pretty much most major cities, and most medium sized cities, then?
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Patrick Dignam
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My guess is that the Republican Governor led states are going to fall in line quickly.

 
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Patrick Dignam
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OK so what's your point? The Governor is the chief executive at the state level and these cities ummmm are in those states. The Governor controls their Guard, State Attorneys/prosecutors/sheriffs etc. The Mayors in those cities are S.O.L.
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Chapel
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VikingBerserker wrote:
OK so what's your point? The Governor is the chief executive at the state level and these cities ummmm are in those states. The Governor controls their Guard, State Attorneys/prosecutors/sheriffs etc. The Mayors in those cities are S.O.L.


The Governor doesn't make state laws. State Laws are not Federal Laws. Federal Law enforcement is the responsibility of Federal Agents. Immigration Law is a federal domain. Except for that pesky Arizona law that may or may not stay around.

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Patrick Dignam
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MWChapel wrote:


The Governor doesn't make state laws. State Laws are not Federal Laws. Federal Law enforcement is the responsibility of Federal Agents.



Are you being naive purposely? This will not be a federal/state law issue in those states. This will be a phone call that will end this issue real quick.

The Democrat Governors will try to counter-sue or sue depending how it goes.
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Chapel
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VikingBerserker wrote:
MWChapel wrote:


The Governor doesn't make state laws. State Laws are not Federal Laws. Federal Law enforcement is the responsibility of Federal Agents.



Are you being naive purposely? This will not be a federal/state law issue in those states. This will be a phone call that will end this issue real quick.

The Democrat Governors will try to counter-sue or sue depending how it goes.


I'm going to let someone in your tribe explain this to you.
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Patrick Dignam
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MWChapel wrote:


I'm going to let someone in your tribe explain this to you.


How bigoted of you.

To elaborate this will go down the same as Brown vs Board of Ed in the Deep South during the good 'ole days when Democrats controlled the south in states like Texas and loved putting the black man down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Board_of_Education#De...

How did it go for them?
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Adam Alleman
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Good. Fuck trump and his racist policies.
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Pontifex Maximus
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VikingBerserker wrote:
MWChapel wrote:


I'm going to let someone in your tribe explain this to you.


How bigoted of you.

To elaborate this will go down the same as Brown vs Board of Ed in the Deep South during the good 'ole days when Democrats controlled the south in states like Texas and loved putting the black man down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Board_of_Education#De...

How did it go for them?


It takes a really serious kind of alt right idiocy to make that kind of false equivalency
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Christopher Seguin
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MWChapel wrote:
VikingBerserker wrote:
OK so what's your point? The Governor is the chief executive at the state level and these cities ummmm are in those states. The Governor controls their Guard, State Attorneys/prosecutors/sheriffs etc. The Mayors in those cities are S.O.L.


The Governor doesn't make state laws. State Laws are not Federal Laws. Federal Law enforcement is the responsibility of Federal Agents. Immigration Law is a federal domain. Except for that pesky Arizona law that may or may not stay around.



I agree with this completely.

Federal law needs to be enforced, and any city law enforcement agent who actively prevents a federal law enforcement agent from doing his job should be held accountable. And then, in conjunction with that failure to comply, there should be consequences which include the withholding of federal funds to that local jurisdiction.

Michael, you mentioned in a previously thread that Austin's inclusion as a "Sanctuary City" is because Austin will not comply with the federal ICE reporting requirements without a warrant. Whereas I agree with that, I would have to say that Austin should be subject to any withholding of federal funds in the case whereby a warrant is properly issued, and then ignored by Austin's local officials.

San Francisco seems to get the most heat about this issue, mostly because they fail to keep ICE informed of the capture of illegal immigrant and failure to turn them over, and then the fact that a young woman was murdered by an illegal immigrant who had already been kicked out at least once and then snuck back in (these facts are hazy, I am going off of memory, but I do remember the general details of the matter). Those are the kinds of incidents that get people "riled up" about Sanctuary Cities, and why there is now some pushback on the federal level with respect to funding.

It's not "politically correct" to call illegal immigrants that murder young girls "criminals" or "illegal immigrants" - on the contrary, those that do are labeled "racists". However, that became an important position of Trump in his election victory. As I have said in a few other threads when it comes to positions on the political spectrum that divide the country, "that shit don't fly in some parts". People aren't too keen on defending the rights of illegal immigrants that commit crimes at the cost of American citizens' lives.
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casey r lowe
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Kumitedad wrote:
It takes a really serious kind of alt right idiocy to make that kind of false equivalency

he is a special one
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Chapel
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chrisnd wrote:


Michael, you mentioned in a previously thread that Austin's inclusion as a "Sanctuary City" is because Austin will not comply with the federal ICE reporting requirements without a warrant. Whereas I agree with that, I would have to say that Austin should be subject to any withholding of federal funds in the case whereby a warrant is properly issued, and then ignored by Austin's local officials.

San Francisco seems to get the most heat about this issue, mostly because they fail to keep ICE informed of the capture of illegal immigrant and failure to turn them over, and then the fact that a young woman was murdered by an illegal immigrant who had already been kicked out at least once and then snuck back in (these facts are hazy, I am going off of memory, but I do remember the general details of the matter). Those are the kinds of incidents that get people "riled up" about Sanctuary Cities, and why there is now some pushback on the federal level with respect to funding.


I also think that the reason you don't find a lot of State Laws that compel state enforcement officials to enforce federal laws is because really, there will never be a Republican State Congress that passes laws giving the Federal Government more dominion than they already have.

The problem with Trumps plan to withhold funding is that 300 cities that pretty much states EVERY major city in the nation is considered a sanctuary city....and he's going to withhold federal funding from every single major city in the nation? Doubt it.

And probably this has less to do with politics of the issue, and more how much extra time($$$) it would take city enforcement to do a job that the Federal government should be doing.
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Burke Martin
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The governors can try to enforce it but it will be political suicide in many states. Besides that I thought conservatives wanted smaller government with a much shorter reach? "Just let us live the way we live" or something...
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Chris R.
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Quote:
Chicago Mayor Rahm "Never let a crisis go to waste" Emanuel vowed that Chicago would not comply with Trump's demands that sanctuary cities knock it off or lose their federal funding. His city has been a sanctuary for illegal aliens since 1985 when a city ordinance was passed instructing all city services to not check immigration status as a prerequisite to people receiving said services.

[q="Rahm"]Chicago has been a city of immigrants since it was founded. We have always welcomed people of all faiths and backgrounds, and while the [White House] administration will change, our values and our commitment to inclusion will not.

We're not going to turn people over to ICE.


 
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Burke Martin
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sikeospi wrote:
Quote:
Chicago Mayor Rahm "Never let a crisis go to waste" Emanuel vowed that Chicago would not comply with Trump's demands that sanctuary cities knock it off or lose their federal funding. His city has been a sanctuary for illegal aliens since 1985 when a city ordinance was passed instructing all city services to not check immigration status as a prerequisite to people receiving said services.

[q="Rahm"]Chicago has been a city of immigrants since it was founded. We have always welcomed people of all faiths and backgrounds, and while the [White House] administration will change, our values and our commitment to inclusion will not.

We're not going to turn people over to ICE.




Murder capital is in your state but hey, maybe theyre using fake math.
 
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Mike Stiles
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If Trump wants to play chicken with the most profitable economies in the country, let him.

Realistically though, he'll fold once it even threatens to touch his bottom line. He's not in this gig for ideals.
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Mike Stiles
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@sikeopsi;

it's polite to link political cartoonists to your source and their home site, even if they're goddamn idiots like Branco.
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David desJardins
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MWChapel wrote:
And probably this has less to do with politics of the issue, and more how much extra time($$$) it would take city enforcement to do a job that the Federal government should be doing.


This is not really true. It doesn't cost the local government anything to check names of their detainees against a list and if they are on a list of deportable aliens to alert the feds before their release. They refuse to do that for political reasons, not because of cost.

The enthusiasm for protecting the lawbreakers is pretty high where I live. I can't see the city of San Francisco caving in. As stated above, cutting off literally all federal funds to such cities would probably be unconstitutional, and certainly at least tied up in court for years. What is more likely is targeted cuts in particular federal funding that has a logical connection to this issue. That will probably go through and some cities will cave in, while the most hardcore blue cities (San Francisco, Chicago, NYC, etc.) will hold out and will lose some federal funds.
 
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David desJardins
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bjlillo wrote:
VikingBerserker wrote:
My guess is that the Republican Governor led states are going to fall in line quickly.


None of these are state ordinances as far as I can see. This is much more of a local city issue.


The red states will pass laws that will compel their municipalities to cooperate with federal authorities. This isn't much different from the same states passing laws to prohibit their municipalities from raising their minimum wage, from extending antidiscrimination provisions, and so on, which is happening all over the country.
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Robert Wesley
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Pres.OBAMA is being implored upon bestowing "blanket pardon" regarding "Dreamers"-folks, because of: WHY IS THAT? surprise
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David desJardins
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GROGnads wrote:
Pres.OBAMA is being implored upon bestowing "blanket pardon" regarding "Dreamers"-folks, because of: WHY IS THAT? surprise


Because people are desperate and afraid and grasping at straws.

This isn't a viable solution. But I can understand why people wish for it.

P.S. You're slipping. I understood your entire posting this time.
 
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Robert Wesley
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"Not exactly!" since there is the 'answer' that those were "deserving" individuals for such 'consideration', indubitably. whistle
 
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David desJardins
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Whether they are deserving or not, it wouldn't work. Neither politically nor legally.
 
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Robert Wesley
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surprise Politically? Such as what the "D"s self-inflicted upon ALL now, since, yeah we need to change them into "no longer being in charge" then.

Legally? It is with that of which they shall garner eventual 'full citizenship' and 'voting privileges' so, now then?
 
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David desJardins
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Being in the US illegally isn't even a crime. Some illegal aliens may have committed crimes, but even if Obama issued a blanket pardon of all crimes by all illegal aliens (something impossible to imagine, what about murders and rapes?) it still wouldn't keep them from being deported. The pardon power is just not useful or relevant here. Obama can excuse past offenses against the United States, but that doesn't grant the right to remain in the country.

That's the legal situation, which is pretty clearcut. Politically, unilateral executive action in defiance of the legislative process has been unpopular---it helped Trump get elected---so more of the same would not help Democrats.
 
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