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Subject: Landscape Types Yearly Goals rss

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Tyler
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Knoxville
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I need a little clarification on how to score the Landscape Types yearly goal. It says "who has the most of the 4 different landscape types?"

1. Does this mean that the player that comes the closest to completing a set of all four landscape types completes the goal, assuming no player has all four?

2. If more than one player has all four types then does the player with the most complete sets or closest to completing another set scores the goal?
 
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Tomello Visello
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Gamineer wrote:
I need a little clarification on how to score the Landscape Types yearly goal. It says "who has the most of the 4 different landscape types?"

1. Does this mean that the player that comes the closest to completing a set of all four landscape types completes the goal, assuming no player has all four?

2. If more than one player has all four types then does the player with the most complete sets or closest to completing another set scores the goal?


Here is a full quote

Quote:
Who has the most of the 4 different landscape types? In case of a tie, the tied player with the most sets of their landscapes (2 of each, 3 of each, etc.) wins. See picture: Red has the 4different landscape types. In case of a tie, Red has 2 tiles of each of the 4 landscape types.


1) Yes mostly. Possibly one player alone has a complete set of 4, and wins.

2. Yes mostly. I'm not confident about "closest to completing another set" as a tie breaker. I guess it should be but I also suspect it might be very rare to come to that.


EDIT:
OK. At first, and responding quickly, I wasn't confident about "closest to completing another set" because it wasn't stated as tie breaker to the tie breaker. But it does still stand on the basis of the first sentence of the rule.


 
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Michael Frost

Iowa
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There is no need to create additional tiebreaker mechanisms as the rules clearly anticipate real hard ties that are not broken.
---------------------

A. When two players each have the maximum of 4 different landscape types:

Per the rules there are four key factors at play here:

First, there are only 4 different landscape types. There is no 5th. Watchtowers are not included. So the initial "score condition" would be a maximum 4. So if two players each have 4 different landscape types they are tied. Then...

Second, the tie for "Landscape Types" is based on a set. The rules discuss only a complete set. That is clearly 1 of each different landscape type, in this example that is a "4". There is no mention of any incomplete set (e.g., of 3 different landscape types).

Third, the rule clearly provides for one tiebreaker. But makes no mention of any second. Thus, there is no need to look for more tiebreakers.

Fourth, and possibly most important, the general explanation for the "Yearly Goals" clearly says:

"In case of a tie, all tied players get the score of the lowest rank of the tied players."

So the rules anticipate real hard ties that cannot be broken. When that happens, the tie prevails. One doesn't create a new "tiebreaker" (i.e., allowing for an incomplete set to break the tie).

------------------

B. When two players tie with 3 different landscape types each:

In this case, where two players each have just 3 different landscape types, they are initially tied. Then their "set" becomes the 3 different landscape types they have. If they remain tied after looking at their "sets" of these groupings of 3 types, then they are tied and the tie rule comes into play.

------------------

Which makes sense, since players don't want ties and ties are punished. The goal is for players to take actions to make sure there is no tie during the game play, but real ties can happen. And when they do, players score less.
 
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Tomello Visello
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MPMelanchthon wrote:
B. When two players tie with 3 different landscape types each:In this case, where two players each have just 3 different landscape types, they are initially tied. Then their "set" becomes the 3 different landscape types they have. If they remain tied after looking at their "sets" of these groupings of 3 types, then they are tied and the tie rule comes into play.

Only with reading and re-reading the rules quote do I begin to see how you get there but we have otherwise taken very divergent paths.

Rules wrote:
LANDSCAPE TYPES
Who has the most of the 4 different landscape types? In case of a tie, the tied player with the most sets of their landscapes (2 of each, 3 of each, etc.) wins.
See picture: Red has the 4 different landscape types. In case of a tie, Red has 2 tiles of each of the 4 landscape types.

There are "types" and "sets" to be evaluated. I interpreted that a set should consist of all 4 types. At only 3 "types" each I would have declared a tie and given the lower scoring of shared points. I would never have imagined checking how many "sets" of the 3 types.

The single word "their" now makes me less at ease. I had viewed this broadly as the odd construct of a non-native speaker while you have done differently.
 
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Michael Frost

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This "Yearly Goal" could be the goal for Year 1, in which case (esp. in the 5-plyr game) it is entirely possible no player has the maximum set of 4 different landscape types, but might only have a set of 3 or even just 2. So the "sets" have to be compared no matter whether they have 2-3-4 types in them.
 
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Tomello Visello
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MPMelanchthon wrote:
1)This "Yearly Goal" could be the goal for Year 1, in which case (esp. in the 5-plyr game) it is entirely possible no player has the maximum set of 4 different landscape types, but might only have a set of 3 or even just 2. 2)So the "sets" have to be compared no matter whether they have 2-3-4 types in them.

Sentence #1; certainly. Sentence #2; so if no one has a "set of all 4 types" as I interpreted then there simply is no further investigation as to determining who scores.


Here is how I got there:
Rules - as interpreted by TVis wrote:
LANDSCAPE TYPES
Who has the most of the 4 different landscape types? In case of a tie, the tied player with the most sets of their landscapes (2 SETS of each, 3 SETS of each, etc.) wins.
See picture: Red has the 4 different landscape types. In case of a tie, Red has 2 tiles of each of the 4 landscape types.

The use of "sets" right before the parentheses guides me to interpret that same term as relevant inside the parentheses (rather than "types").


Consider:

"In case of a tie, Red has 2 tiles of each of the 4 landscape types."

Rows vs Columns - I understood that sentence as shown in the first block below to be 2 sets (where it takes 4 to be a set), you understand as shown in the second block for it to be 4 sets

A B C D
-------
A B C D




A | B | C | D |
| | | |
A | B | C | D |


 
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Michael Frost

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It seems you're obsessed with coming up with something that guarantees there can't be a tie with this specific "Yearly Goal", even though the rule book clearly anticipates real hard ties in regard to the scoring of "Yearly Goals".

I think you're focusing too much thought in regard to a "set" having to include one of each of the 4 different landscape types. That is just the LARGEST set possible, but SMALLER sets are also possible.

And you have to apply the rule at all player counts and regardless of whether this "Yearly Goal" is selected for Year 1, 2 or 3.

In a 5-player game, where there are only 6 plays in year 1, it is entirely possible that NO player would get a largest set of 4 different landscape types. But it is entirely possible that two players might get the next largest set of 3 different landscape types. They are initially tied. Then the tiebreaker is whether one player has a 2nd complete set of their 3 different landscape types. If one player has one more set, the tie is broken. If no player does, the tie is now permanent and the "Yearly Goal" is scored as a tie.
 
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Tomello Visello
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MPMelanchthon wrote:
It seems you're obsessed with coming up with something that guarantees there can't be a tie with this specific "Yearly Goal",
I don't understand where you are getting this. I understood all along ties/shared scores existed and have never thought about trying to get around them.

Quote:
I think you're focusing too much thought in regard to a "set" having to include one of each of the 4 different landscape types.
Mostly my previous post was meant merely as an explanation of the course I took myself, prior to considering your interpretation.

 
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