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Subject: Black Market Supply deck - Gear and Upgrades rss

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George Krubski
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There's already so much going on in the main Black Market thread that I thought breaking the Gear out into its own thread (for now) seemed reasonable.

THE BLACK MARKET will likely be my most ambitious project, with a new Supply Deck (45-50 cards), a new Contact (45-50 jobs), more than a half dozen new leaders, and probably 5 new cards for every other Supply deck.

There's still some fine-tuning to be done on Crew, but most of them are detailed in the main thread. Here's the first batch of Gear:

 


Riddick's Ulaks are unique, a really nasty Knife variant... although now that I'm looking at them again, what they heck was I thinking with the price?!? These should probably be in the $400 or $600 range.

Two notes on design: First, the "frame" is a placeholder. My cousin is going to work on some art for the card backs, which I believe we'll try to retask to the frame... but if anyone else wants to take a stab, I'm open to submissions.

Second, there has been much talk about "Wanted" Gear. The approach I'm taking (so far) is minimalist: whenever you need to make Wanted Crew rolls, roll for each Wanted Gear after.

 


Thought it would be cool for the Tongs to have a sort of "Excalibur" gun.

 


And, speaking of the Tongs... These handy little Jade Coins mark you as a friend to the Tongs, with all that entails. Additionally, you can turn in your Jade Coin for free access to the Black Market.

Note the Disgruntling effect if the coin is no longer carried. I didn't want to do away with the idea that you can reallocate Gear (although I ALMOST did, by making this "gang markings" or somesuch), but I wanted to underscore that you're not just casually handing the coin from one Crew to another, especially since there many be benefits or detriments to being Tong.

Although this should probably not count toward Gear limit, it was getting too complicated.

There will probably be 3-4 of these, likely all at non-Black Market Supply locations.

 


This was a tough one to get right. Although the nature of the weapons implies not counting against Gear limit and/or being able to use in Kosherized fights, don't we have enough of those already?

I think my current plan calls for one in Siverhold and one at the Black Market.

 


Although not strictly Black Market-y in nature, I may throw in the Crew of the Betty and there are few pieces of Gear more iconic to the entire alien franchise than the power loader.

There would probably be one at the the Space Bazaar and another at Beaumonde. I thought about "requires Pilot" (to reflect Ripley's skills and license), but it seemed to complicate things without adding value.
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Mudd Grizzly

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Can this expansion function independently of all other expansions you’ve made?

Would your expansion (or have any of your previous expansions) remake any of the original official cards to take into account new rules you're introducing? For example, would any Leaders or Crew become Ruthless (probably requiring a rebalancing)?

Also, since the EVA Suit is a Ship Upgrade, I could see the Power Loader being one as well, especially since it’s functionally similar to Hydraulic Docking Clamps. Not that it needs to be.

Edit:
Also, just to make sure I'm reading the card right, is the idea that Zip Guns can be used by anybody as a Firearm and only Soldiers can discard them to count as a Sniper Rifle?
 
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Juan Francisco NÚÑEZ FENOLL
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Nice Job...!!!!
 
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George Krubski
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Thanks!
 
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George Krubski
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Mudd Grizzly wrote:
Can this expansion function independently of all other expansions you’ve made?


For the most part, yes. I try to design by stuff to be modular. Use what you want; ignore what you don't.

Having said that, there are some minor interdependencies: For example, Haw Ling (from ACES & EIGHTS) has the "Tong" keyword, which means nothing without THE BLACK MARKET being in play.

There may also be cards made exclusively to be added to the Black Market Supply deck in the future (right now, I think two of the Crew cards from SYFY'S FRIDAY KNIGHTS are slated to be added), but you can always just ignore those cards.

Possibly the biggest impact is that I will begin using Wanted Gear and Ruthless Crew more extensively... although since those house rules are modular, you don't necessarily need THE BLACK MARKET (there's a reason I try to do my house rules as cards!).

Mudd Grizzly wrote:
Would your expansion (or have any of your previous expansions) remake any of the original official cards to take into account new rules you're introducing? For example, would any Leaders or Crew become Ruthless (probably requiring a rebalancing)?


I actually do have a thread somewhere that updates a small number of existing leaders and Crew to Ruthless: Jubal, Womack, Burgess, Crow, the Interrogator... I think there are 3-4 more I'm forgetting.

There are other cards that should be "fixed" too, in my opinion: Helen shouldn't be Moral, Meadows should be a Mudder, Cortland has the wrong picture... I may eventually release a "Fixes" pack of 12-18 cards, but wasn't planning to do Ruthless versions of official cards yet.

Or do you think that should be done sooner?

Mudd Grizzly wrote:
Also, since the EVA Suit is a Ship Upgrade, I could see the Power Loader being one as well, especially since it’s functionally similar to Hydraulic Docking Clamps. Not that it needs to be.


Yeah, I was really on the fence on that. Ultimately, it came down to the idea that I wanted it to be able to provide a bonus in a fight (for now, at least), and Upgrades don't generally provide direct skill bonuses.

But I could probably be convinced to go the other way.

Mudd Grizzly wrote:
Edit:
Also, just to make sure I'm reading the card right, is the idea that Zip Guns can be used by anybody as a Firearm and only Soldiers can discard them to count as a Sniper Rifle?


Yes, exactly. Is there a way to make that clearer? Maybe I should reverse the two bits of text?
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George Krubski
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So... Another batch of stuff. After I get a bit of feedback, I'll talk about deck-by-deck breakdowns (I'm currently thinking 45 cards for The Black Market, and 5 for each of the existing Supply Decks). There may be a few more items added to fine-tune things, but this is the bulk of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
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Ralph Stratford
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Here are a few comments/questions:

Jade Coin

This card looks a bit complicated to manage to me because it seems to be a discard if Option 1 is chosen but not of Option 2 is chosen.

If no Merc or Wanted Crew are carrying this Gear card I presume it can be passed between non-Merc and/or non-Wanted Crew without anyone becoming disgruntled?

How does this Gear card work if a Merc or Wanted Crew wants to carry this but only to use Option 1 (i.e. if you are a Merc or Wanted Crew are you automatically bound by Option 2 without choosing)?

I also presume once Option 2 has been chosen/triggered, Option 1 is no longer available to choose. If it is a choice what happens if the Werc/Wanted crew chose Option 2 and then passed it to another Merc/Wanted Crew. Does that Crew automatically have to take Option 2 of do they get to choose Option 1?

If Option 2 is chosen and the card passed to a non-Merc or non-Wanted Crew and then that Crew passes it back to the original Crew (who is a Merc or Wanted Crew) does it mean the Merc or Wanted Crew can now Choose Opt 1, or are they locked into staying with their Option 2 choice/trigger when they first equipped it?

I haven't got a great understanding of the Tong rules yet but it seems to me that even at $0 with it counting against Gear limit I would be reluctant to take this and equip it to a Merc or Wanted Crew.

Forged Bounty Posting

I presume that if you have Wanted Crew that are not protected the Operative still takes one when the contact occurs?

If you have for example China as your Leader an no Crew but she has this Gear card and a Gear Card that protects her from becoming disgruntled (let's assume she moved into the Operative's Sector) she would not be able to use the Forged Bounty Posting Gear unless she was prepared to become disgruntled. The same would also be true if China had one or more Crew all who were Wanted but protected by Gear they are carrying. In that case China gets disgruntled or one of her Wanted Crew is removed.

Also if one of China's Wanted Crew removed their Gear that protects them to use the Forged Bounty Posting they would get arrested before they could use it.

If Option 1 is chosen to remove a Crew from play does the Crew have to be on a player's ship, or can the Crew be in a Supply Planet discard pile?

I also presume that the chosen Crew can't still be face down in a Supply Deck.

Rigged Pulse Beacon

Does this occur before any other effects that are "immediate" (for example Alliance Cruiser Contact, Corvette Contact, etc)?

If you are in a Sector with the Cruiser or the Corvette but you are not an Outlaw Ship I presume you can't use the card because there are no effects to ignore which is the prerequisite to move the Alliance Ship?

Maybe change the wording to refer to Cruiser or Corvette contact?
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Dave Rowley
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"Forged Bounty Contract" sounds a good way of getting rid of any annoying Rival Crew member.

The "Mobile Cryo Tubes" are similar to my "Holding Cells". Similar but not the same. I like the differences, enough so there is room of both cards in the 'Verse.

Any chance of the Passenger/Fugitive suitcase image as the one I'm using is a bit "naff."

The "Rigged Pulse Beacon" is a sort of souped up "Cry Baby." At $200 more than a "Cry Baby" - a bargain to ignore either the Cruiser OR Corvette... AND an ASREV! whistle

Looks like I might have to ignore my indifference for the Riddick franchise and get this set!

 
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Really like what I'm seeing so far. Looks like this will be a really good one!
 
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George Krubski
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Dalek1 wrote:
Here are a few comments/questions:

Jade Coin

This card looks a bit complicated to manage to me because it seems to be a discard if Option 1 is chosen but not of Option 2 is chosen.


That is essentially correct. There are two different aspects, one of which requires that it be Carried, the other that it be Carried then Discarded. Although there's more (which you get to), in this, it is no different from, say, the various upper-end Knives or Simon Tam's Sonic Stun Baton.

Dalek1 wrote:

If no Merc or Wanted Crew are carrying this Gear card I presume it can be passed between non-Merc and/or non-Wanted Crew without anyone becoming disgruntled?


Correct. And it could then be discarded to enter the Black Market... but nobody counts as Tong.

Thematically, the intent is that the Jade Coin represents allegiance to the Tongs (and, by extension, the Black Market). Carried by "normal" Crew, it's just enough to help you find the Black Market by flashing it around and trading it in.

But carried by the right crew - someone on the run from the law or of a particularly mercenary bend - it now symbolizes a "made man," if you will. The character in question could trade on their reputation to get access to the Black Market (as per the first part of the coin's ability), but doing so sort of burns bridges, Disgruntling the Crew. You could interpret this either as a lack of reputation, or cashing in a favor, or something similar.

Dalek1 wrote:
How does this Gear card work if a Merc or Wanted Crew wants to carry this but only to use Option 1 (i.e. if you are a Merc or Wanted Crew are you automatically bound by Option 2 without choosing)?


Yes. As soon as the Merc or Wanted Crew carries it, they are assumed to be "in" with the Tongs, and will be Disgruntled if they have to give up the symbol of this relationship.

However, this should never actually happen, given that no leader is Merc or Wanted (I'll have to check how Person of Interest is written, but I think the default is that a Person of Interest is NOT considered Wanted, but shares a number of features). If you're using the Jade Coin to access the Black Market, you're doing so outside of a Work Action, which means you can freely move your Gear around, so even if you have an entire Crew of Mercs/Wanted folks, your leader can still discard the coin "safely."

Dalek1 wrote:

I also presume once Option 2 has been chosen/triggered, Option 1 is no longer available to choose.


Nope. Option #1 always remains a valid choice. There's just a potential downside now.

Dalek1 wrote:

If it is a choice what happens if the Merc/Wanted crew chose Option 2 and then passed it to another Merc/Wanted Crew. Does that Crew automatically have to take Option 2 of do they get to choose Option 1?


I think Option #1 remaining always valid changes the nature of this question, yes?

Forget about Option #1 for a minute. The way this is supposed to work is that you can basically give one of your Crew a free Keyword, but if you start moving it around from Crew to Crew, there's a downside. (Similarly, there are times when being Tong is not great, so this prevents you from having your cake and eating it too without any downside).

Dalek1 wrote:

If Option 2 is chosen and the card passed to a non-Merc or non-Wanted Crew and then that Crew passes it back to the original Crew (who is a Merc or Wanted Crew) does it mean the Merc or Wanted Crew can now Choose Opt 1, or are they locked into staying with their Option 2 choice/trigger when they first equipped it?


Again, I THINK this is not really a valid situation, yes?, given that you don't really have to chose between the two options. (Maybe I made a mistake in adding the "OR" lines?).

Dalek1 wrote:

I haven't got a great understanding of the Tong rules yet but it seems to me that even at $0 with it counting against Gear limit I would be reluctant to take this and equip it to a Merc or Wanted Crew.


Tong, as a keyword, is doubled edged.

On the positive side, there are some jobs that give you a +$1000 bonus with a Tong crew member. There are also some cards that function like Angry Mob/Head Goon/Foreman, where you want at least 3 Tong on your Crew. Additionally, the two new Tong leaders both have benefits if with Tong Crew.

On the down-side, I think there will be a general Cortex Alert for Tong Crew members, and in the Tong Piracy Jobs, Tong Crew must be Killed first. Additionally, if you have a non-Tong leader, Tong Crew count a Mercs for An Interesting Day.

So, there are definitely times when you'd want to do it, I think.

Dalek1 wrote:

Forged Bounty Posting

I presume that if you have Wanted Crew that are not protected the Operative still takes one when the contact occurs?


Yeah, see, here's where it gets complicated. There may be a better way to phrase it. The intention is that if you run into the Operative and must sacrifice Crew, you can sacrifice anyone, not just Wanted Crew. Basically: "Oh, Jayne and Stitch? Don't worry about them. But why don't you take a look at this Hill Folk hiding in the corner? Seems I've got a bounty saying that he's on the run? I was just getting ready to turn him over anyway..."

Dalek1 wrote:

If you have for example China as your Leader an no Crew but she has this Gear card and a Gear Card that protects her from becoming disgruntled (let's assume she moved into the Operative's Sector) she would not be able to use the Forged Bounty Posting Gear unless she was prepared to become disgruntled. The same would also be true if China had one or more Crew all who were Wanted but protected by Gear they are carrying. In that case China gets disgruntled or one of her Wanted Crew is removed.


Again, if Crew are protected, this wouldn't come in to play. It's just when someone would have to be sacrificed.

Dalek1 wrote:

Also if one of China's Wanted Crew removed their Gear that protects them to use the Forged Bounty Posting they would get arrested before they could use it.


If you have only Wanted Crew, it's pointless to try to use the Gear anyway, since it has no effect.

Dalek1 wrote:

If Option 1 is chosen to remove a Crew from play does the Crew have to be on a player's ship, or can the Crew be in a Supply Planet discard pile?

I also presume that the chosen Crew can't still be face down in a Supply Deck.


It would have to be someone on your Crew. If that's not clear enough, I can try to clarify, but with the arguable exception of Morale Booster, I don't think there's any special ability that can be used to impact another player's crew without explicitly saying so.

Dalek1 wrote:

Rigged Pulse Beacon

Does this occur before any other effects that are "immediate" (for example Alliance Cruiser Contact, Corvette Contact, etc)?

If you are in a Sector with the Cruiser or the Corvette but you are not an Outlaw Ship I presume you can't use the card because there are no effects to ignore which is the prerequisite to move the Alliance Ship?

Maybe change the wording to refer to Cruiser or Corvette contact?


The phrasing from this card is adapted from the Cry Baby, with only "cosmetic" changes to make it apply to the Cruiser and the Corvette (and any future Alliance ships), so all rulings would be the same as with the Cry Baby.
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George Krubski
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UpStarter wrote:

"Forged Bounty Contract" sounds a good way of getting rid of any annoying Rival Crew member.


It's supposed to apply only to your Crew.

UpStarter wrote:

The "Mobile Cryo Tubes" are similar to my "Holding Cells". Similar but not the same. I like the differences, enough so there is room of both cards in the 'Verse.


I just too a look. There are definite similarities, although I came at it from a different angle, I suspect. I was originally going to include copies of a number of GF9 cards in the Black Market, but I decided why not up the stakes? Not all are direct correlations, but I tried to hit the intent: Decoy Nav Sat Clusters and Cry Babies became Rigged Pulse Beacons, Cryo Stasis Chamber and Concealed Smuggling Compartments became Mobile Cryo Tubes, Heist Intel became The Jade Fox's Hat...

I like your use of Alliance Alert tokens, by the way. If you've been in the Jobs and House Rules threads and seen the Reaver Transport Jobs, I have a similar system using the Reaver Alert tokens (likely influenced by your original upgrade!).

UpStarter wrote:
Any chance of the Passenger/Fugitive suitcase image as the one I'm using is a bit "naff."


I believe you've got it!

UpStarter wrote:
The "Rigged Pulse Beacon" is a sort of souped up "Cry Baby." At $200 more than a "Cry Baby" - a bargain to ignore either the Cruiser OR Corvette... AND an ASREV! whistle


Exactly!

UpStarter wrote:
Looks like I might have to ignore my indifference for the Riddick franchise and get this set!


If it helps, there set is now probably equal parts Riddick, Alien (notably Alien: Resurrection), and GWEK originals (with a heavy dose of the Tongs).
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I'm with Ralph on the Jade Coin. Until I read your response, I wasn't getting it. Perhaps dropping the "Requires" wording and rearranging the text would help clarify:

Quote:
If carried by Merc or Wanted:
Crew counts as "Tong"

Discard:
Enter the Black Market
Disgruntle if Crew carrying is Merc or Wanted


I think my confusion came from the following features:
1. At first, it's worded to sound like anyone can carry it and subsequently discard it (which it can be, so well done there).
2. But then its alternative function states "Requires Merc or Wanted:" with an enduring ability, which then automatically led me to question who's allowed to carry it in the first place. Your explanation was required for me to grasp the theme that is apparently driving this card's design and functions. As a result, some clarity has gotten lost I think.
3. The "---OR---" on this card leads me to read the two options as mutually exclusive when really they share one of the card's primary functions. Like you said (@Gwek), that's not a new concept, but it just isn't intuitive on this card yet.
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I'm glad I wasn't the only one that didn't quite understand the Jade Coin, but with your (Gwek) explanation I can now see what you are intending.

I agree with Darin that some wording changes to help make it more clear along the lines of your explanations would be good!
 
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So, clearly, there is some fine-tuning work to do!

I believe I have noted before that I consider THE BLACK MARKET to be an "advanced" expansion, so some of the cards (especially Gear and Jobs) get more complicated than we're used to. (But still only what I can git on a card!).
 
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Someone proposed making the Power Loader a ship upgrade and I liked the idea, especially since the set is very light on upgrades.

That move made me switch the flat FIGHT bonus to a larger +3 FIGHT bonus that requires a discard, but I'm okay with that. If you're bringing the Power Loader into the middle of town to help you with a Misbehave, a) you probably ain't getting it back to the ship, and b) you're almost literally bringing out "the big guns."

 


A know a few people have presented various interpretations of ship-borne weapons. This is my take (although it's worth noting that my take is decidedly transitory - you launch these suckers to lose them.

And with these two ship upgrades, I think that now covers all Gear for the Black Market EXCEPT "Man Trap" or something similar (I need to watch the third Riddick movie and get a screen cap of the traps he uses against the mercs). I believe it will be $400 and you can discard for either +2 Fight or to catch a lone target Bounty without making a roll.

Once I post that card, the next step will be to start grouping supplies (including Crew) by Supply Planet and fine-tuning those batches.
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gwek wrote:
Someone proposed making the Power Loader a ship upgrade and I liked the idea, especially since the set is very light on upgrades.

That move made me switch the flat FIGHT bonus to a larger +3 FIGHT bonus that requires a discard, but I'm okay with that. If you're bringing the Power Loader into the middle of town to help you with a Misbehave, a) you probably ain't getting it back to the ship, and b) you're almost literally bringing out "the big guns."


I see your reasoning and it looks good to me.

gwek wrote:
A know a few people have presented various interpretations of ship-borne weapons. This is my take (although it's worth noting that my take is decidedly transitory - you launch these suckers to lose them.


A good take on missiles. Adds the option of using mb to the standard mb or mb. I like it.

gwek wrote:
And with these two ship upgrades, I think that now covers all Gear for the Black Market EXCEPT "Man Trap" or something similar (I need to watch the third Riddick movie and get a screen cap of the traps he uses against the mercs). I believe it will be $400 and you can discard for either +2 Fight or to catch a lone target Bounty without making a roll.


Another capture a "lone fugitive". Nice.

gwek wrote:
Once I post that card, the next step will be to start grouping supplies (including Crew) by Supply Planet and fine-tuning those batches.

Soon to be arriving... Ho Ho Ho. thumbsup

Just as an side, I'm aiming to have loads of extra deck goodies for use on Tuesday 27th which I'm aiming to be a big Firefly all-dayer at my house. There, I've said it so it had better happen!
 
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I'll see what I can do.
 
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I'm liking the power loader as an upgrade for sure.

The missiles are just what you'd expect to find on the black market. I like'em.

And the man traps...brutal. Since those nasty things certainly cripple whomever they catch, perhaps there ought to be a drawback to using them? Even if you make them "wanted" the alliance would probably be aware that you used such a thing to capture someone once you turn them in anyway (it's hard to hide a crushed/mangled limb). Perhaps your bounty pay is reduced for using them? They're like the dirty bounty hunter's answer to Dave's alliance stun grenades.
 
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What if using them is an Immoral act (like turning in Mudders)?
 
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If I remember rightly Riddick himself is Ruthless so wouldn't be too bothered about (a) mangled limbs and (b) an immoral act.

Go for it.
 
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gwek wrote:
What if using them is an Immoral act (like turning in Mudders)?

Brilliant! I think this will do everything I had in mind. A moral captain is unlikely to use them, especially with an immoral bounty and a full crew in tow.
 
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So... Pretty much as described.

 


I actually wanted to re-task a few existing cards but they largely fell to the wayside. However, when I stumbled across this image while looking for the predator restraints, it seemed like fate.
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Looking good. The only thing that seems a bit off is the ability to use the predator restraints to add skills to a fight test.
 
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gwek wrote:

 


A know a few people have presented various interpretations of ship-borne weapons. This is my take (although it's worth noting that my take is decidedly transitory - you launch these suckers to lose them.

And with these two ship upgrades, I think that now covers all Gear for the Black Market EXCEPT "Man Trap" or something similar (I need to watch the third Riddick movie and get a screen cap of the traps he uses against the mercs). I believe it will be $400 and you can discard for either +2 Fight or to catch a lone target Bounty without making a roll.

Once I post that card, the next step will be to start grouping supplies (including Crew) by Supply Planet and fine-tuning those batches.


What about a Discard a Fuel and a Part to avoid discarding the card
(to represent reloads carried in your ship?)
 
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GerryRailBaron wrote:
What about a Discard a Fuel and a Part to avoid discarding the card
(to represent reloads carried in your ship?)


Nice idea but the card is already maxed out with lore...

What would you get rid of? Just a thought.
 
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