casey r lowe
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thought this thread was about a clinton scandal for sure
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Jon Badolato
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Stop centering criticism of Donald Trump around this sort of stuff, and switch to literally anything else. Here is an incompetent thin-skinned ignorant boorish fraudulent omnihypocritical demagogue with no idea how to run a country, whose philosophy of governance basically boils down to “I’m going to win and not lose, details to be filled in later”, and all you can do is repeat, again and again, how he seems popular among weird Internet teenagers who post frog memes. In the middle of an emotionally incontinent reality TV show host getting his hand on the nuclear button, your chief complaint is that in the middle of a few dozen denunciations of the KKK, he once delayed denouncing the KKK for an entire 24 hours before going back to denouncing it again. When a guy who says outright that he won’t respect elections unless he wins them does, somehow, win an election, the headlines are how he once said he didn’t like globalists which means he must be anti-Semitic.


Boy, this guy really has his head up his ass. You pick some real winners. Personally, I'm not concerned about what weird internet teenagers who post frog memes ( a strawman if ever there was one ) write or do. But when the candidate himself actually elevates a white nationalist racist to be a chief advisor, then yes, there is cause for concern. The rest of this guys argument ( and I use the term very loosely ) is just a bad. Where the hell do they find these people to write stuff this goofy ??
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Jon Badolato
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ImaSokpupet wrote:
jonb wrote:
Quote:
Stop centering criticism of Donald Trump around this sort of stuff, and switch to literally anything else. Here is an incompetent thin-skinned ignorant boorish fraudulent omnihypocritical demagogue with no idea how to run a country, whose philosophy of governance basically boils down to “I’m going to win and not lose, details to be filled in later”, and all you can do is repeat, again and again, how he seems popular among weird Internet teenagers who post frog memes. In the middle of an emotionally incontinent reality TV show host getting his hand on the nuclear button, your chief complaint is that in the middle of a few dozen denunciations of the KKK, he once delayed denouncing the KKK for an entire 24 hours before going back to denouncing it again. When a guy who says outright that he won’t respect elections unless he wins them does, somehow, win an election, the headlines are how he once said he didn’t like globalists which means he must be anti-Semitic.


Boy, this guy really has his head up his ass. You pick some real winners. Personally, I'm not concerned about what weird internet teenagers who post frog memes ( a strawman if ever there was one ) write or do. But when the candidate himself actually elevates a white nationalist racist to be a chief advisor, then yes, there is cause for concern. The rest of this guys argument ( and I use the term very loosely ) is just a bad. Where the hell do they find these people to write stuff this goofy ??


The media should keep up the racist, sexist, homophobe accusations through 2020.
http://www.snopes.com/2016/11/14/steve-bannon-accused-of-hav...


LOL ! Nice try.
 
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Chris Binkowski
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ImaSokpupet wrote:


The media should keep up the racist, sexist, homophobe accusations through 2020.
http://www.snopes.com/2016/11/14/steve-bannon-accused-of-hav...


Yeah yeah! That'll get 'em! That'll stop Trump for sure! It has to be working by now!



 
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Whatever, Drew. Trump is making the guy who provided a platform for the alt-right his chief political strategist. That's the bottom line. That's what people are talking about right now. The alt-right are the kings of identity politics. Whaaaa:

"Telling people to celebrate diversity is telling white people to celebrate their dwindling numbers."

Whaaaaa.

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jonb wrote:
Quote:
Stop centering criticism of Donald Trump around this sort of stuff, and switch to literally anything else. Here is an incompetent thin-skinned ignorant boorish fraudulent omnihypocritical demagogue with no idea how to run a country, whose philosophy of governance basically boils down to “I’m going to win and not lose, details to be filled in later”, and all you can do is repeat, again and again, how he seems popular among weird Internet teenagers who post frog memes. In the middle of an emotionally incontinent reality TV show host getting his hand on the nuclear button, your chief complaint is that in the middle of a few dozen denunciations of the KKK, he once delayed denouncing the KKK for an entire 24 hours before going back to denouncing it again. When a guy who says outright that he won’t respect elections unless he wins them does, somehow, win an election, the headlines are how he once said he didn’t like globalists which means he must be anti-Semitic.


Boy, this guy really has his head up his ass. You pick some real winners. Personally, I'm not concerned about what weird internet teenagers who post frog memes ( a strawman if ever there was one ) write or do. But when the candidate himself actually elevates a white nationalist racist to be a chief advisor, then yes, there is cause for concern. The rest of this guys argument ( and I use the term very loosely ) is just a bad. Where the hell do they find these people to write stuff this goofy ??


The Pedro the frog thing isn't a strawman; I heard that on the news.

(Briefly, but I did hear it.)

Edit: Might have been a linked FB article. Still, heard/saw it!
 
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Drew, had you supported Trump and not actually bought into the media diatribe, your comments on this topic would be thumbworthy.
 
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I actually read this piece already. I thought it was pretty insightful on the whole even though I think he really stretched to make some of his later points.

I mean, seriously:

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He’s at least anti-undocumented immigrant, which is close to being anti-immigrant. And while one can argue that “anti-immigrant” is different than “racist”, I would agree that probably nobody cares that much about British or German immigrants, suggesting that some racial element is involved.


Ok, starting out on some solid ground here. Does he develop further thinking on it? No, because then he would have to end his self-congratulatory "Look at how much smarter I am than the rest of you" spiel. And so he pivots into just making a bunch of unsupported shit up:

Quote:
But I think when Trump voters talk about “globalists”, they’re pointing at how they model this very differently from the people they criticize.

In one model, immigration is a right. You need a very strong reason to take it away from anybody, and such decisions should be carefully inspected to make sure no one is losing the right unfairly. It’s like a store: everyone should be allowed to come in and shop and if a manager refused someone entry then they better have a darned good reason.

In another, immigration is a privilege which members of a community extend at their pleasure to other people whom they think would be a good fit for their community. It’s like a home: you can invite your friends to come live with you, but if someone gives you a vague bad feeling or seems like a good person who’s just incompatible with your current lifestyle, you have the right not to invite them and it would be criminal for them to barge in anyway.

It looks like many Clinton supporters believe in the first model, and many Trump supporters in the second model. I think this ties into deeper differences – Clinton supporters are more atomized and individualist, Trump supporters stronger believers in culture and community.
 
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Chris Binkowski
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Drew1365 wrote:
For what it's worth, I just noticed that Scott Adams was pointing to this piece today as well: "Reprogram an Anti-Trumper with This Article."

He's been writing a bit lately about cognitive dissonance, deprogramming, "breaking the frame" and "de-Hitlerizing your brain."

I've long been fascinated with the ability of pathological liars to persuade people -- even themselves -- that false things are true. This is due mainly to having been victimized by pathological liars in my formative years. It's a form of mind control that people don't really consider. We think of "mind control" like something out of The Manchurian Candidate (the original, not the awful remake), but it's far more subtle than that.


The sum total of internet videos, articles, anecdotes, and real world first hand experiences assimilated into the individual mind still only accounts for a small fraction of reality. As humans, we always have to fill in the blanks with generalizations, theory, and secondhand hearsay to make a complete picture of our world. Who you choose to listen to can make all of the difference in how you end up perceiving the world.

Learning how to separate what you 'definitely know is true' and what you 'might know is true' is a handy skill indeed.

Sorry, what were we talking about?
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Drew1365 wrote:
Here is an example that will cause cognitive dissonance:

Quote:
In the 1980s & 1990s Trump donated heavily to charities that focused on the AIDS outbreak. When he floated a third party presidential run in 1999 he went on record saying he would consider adding sexual orientation to the Civil Rights Act. Trump is also believed to be the first private club owner in Palm Beach — in this case Mar-a-Lago — to admit a gay couple. This is not the resume of an LGBT foe.

Fast forward to the 2016 election and Trump’s view of the LGBT community remained unchanged. In June 2015 he forcefully condemned the terror attack at Pulse nightclub, a LGBT club. In condemning this attack, Trump bravely spoke an ugly truth many in the elite dare not speak – radical Islam and the LGBT community do not mix. Trump took this truth to Cleveland when he vowed to protect the LGBT community.

“Only weeks ago, in Orlando, Florida, 49 wonderful Americans were savagely murdered by an Islamic terrorist. This time, the terrorist targeted LGBTQ community,” Trump told the Republican delegates. “As your president, I will do everything in my power to protect our LGBTQ citizens from the violence and oppression of a hateful foreign ideology.”

During the same convention, Trump asked gay Silicon Valley tycoon Peter Thiel to address the Republican delegates. Thiel accepted then and is now a part of Trump’s transition team. And now Trump is said to be considering Richard Grenell, an openly gay man, to be his ambassador to the U.N.

Trump, therefore, does not fit the LGBT Left narrative about Republican politicians. This narrative holds that since the Moral Majority of the 1980s the entire Republican Party is connected to the bromance of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.

The shelf-life of this logic has now expired with the Christian Right’s influence pertaining to same-sex marriage shrinking in GOP circles and the election of Trump’s, the first post-culture war GOP president.

“It’s irrelevant because it was already settled. It’s law. It was settled in the Supreme Court. I mean it’s done,” Trump told Lesley Stahl when the CBS reporter asked the president-elect whether he supported marriage equality.

Trump doubled down and suggested he would not appoint judges that would seek to overturn the ruling. “It’s done. It-- you have-- these cases have gone to the Supreme Court. They’ve been settled. And, I’m fine with that.”

“I’m fine with that” surely does not fit the talking points being promulgated by the LGBT Left. Here was the president-elect, a man who has long been compared to Hitler by progressives, saying he was fine with marriage equality. What did the LGBT community have to fear if their right to marriage was safe?


Mike Pence.

(Yes, he had to nominate him to get conservatives onto his side. But he did it.)

FADA: http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2016/09/donald-trump-pledges-sign...

Trump contradicts himself on this. I absolutely prefer that to someone like Pence who is pretty straightforward about his opposition to LGBTQ rights.
 
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Jason Reid
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Drew1365 wrote:
Here is an example that will cause cognitive dissonance:

Quote:
Trump doubled down and suggested he would not appoint judges that would seek to overturn the ruling. “It’s done. It-- you have-- these cases have gone to the Supreme Court. They’ve been settled. And, I’m fine with that.”


Trump himself has been quite good on LGBT rights. I remember him decrying the Carolina bathroom law when it was an issue during the primary.

But the above quote does not accurately represent what he's said. He may not seek judges who would overturn the ruling. But he absolutely would "appoint judges who seek to overturn the ruling" if they met his other criteria.
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Burke Martin
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Drew1365 wrote:
Here is an example that will cause cognitive dissonance:

Quote:
In the 1980s & 1990s Trump donated heavily to charities that focused on the AIDS outbreak. When he floated a third party presidential run in 1999 he went on record saying he would consider adding sexual orientation to the Civil Rights Act. Trump is also believed to be the first private club owner in Palm Beach — in this case Mar-a-Lago — to admit a gay couple. This is not the resume of an LGBT foe.

Fast forward to the 2016 election and Trump’s view of the LGBT community remained unchanged. In June 2015 he forcefully condemned the terror attack at Pulse nightclub, a LGBT club. In condemning this attack, Trump bravely spoke an ugly truth many in the elite dare not speak – radical Islam and the LGBT community do not mix. Trump took this truth to Cleveland when he vowed to protect the LGBT community.

“Only weeks ago, in Orlando, Florida, 49 wonderful Americans were savagely murdered by an Islamic terrorist. This time, the terrorist targeted LGBTQ community,” Trump told the Republican delegates. “As your president, I will do everything in my power to protect our LGBTQ citizens from the violence and oppression of a hateful foreign ideology.”

During the same convention, Trump asked gay Silicon Valley tycoon Peter Thiel to address the Republican delegates. Thiel accepted then and is now a part of Trump’s transition team. And now Trump is said to be considering Richard Grenell, an openly gay man, to be his ambassador to the U.N.

Trump, therefore, does not fit the LGBT Left narrative about Republican politicians. This narrative holds that since the Moral Majority of the 1980s the entire Republican Party is connected to the bromance of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.

The shelf-life of this logic has now expired with the Christian Right’s influence pertaining to same-sex marriage shrinking in GOP circles and the election of Trump’s, the first post-culture war GOP president.

“It’s irrelevant because it was already settled. It’s law. It was settled in the Supreme Court. I mean it’s done,” Trump told Lesley Stahl when the CBS reporter asked the president-elect whether he supported marriage equality.

Trump doubled down and suggested he would not appoint judges that would seek to overturn the ruling. “It’s done. It-- you have-- these cases have gone to the Supreme Court. They’ve been settled. And, I’m fine with that.”

“I’m fine with that” surely does not fit the talking points being promulgated by the LGBT Left. Here was the president-elect, a man who has long been compared to Hitler by progressives, saying he was fine with marriage equality. What did the LGBT community have to fear if their right to marriage was safe?


Trump has also praised the Clintons.
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casey r lowe
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is drew seriously lecturing about cognitive dissonance in this thread - wow
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@ Drew1365: I am new to RSP here still, but I have seen a few single posts of yours in response to others but fewer that you create. I just want to say good job on presentation and for not succumbing the the playground of hubris that hurt intellectual arguments. Great job with this one!
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casey r lowe
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Ashgrove wrote:
@ Drew1365: I am new to RSP here still, but I have seen a few single posts of yours in response to others but fewer that you create. I just want to say good job on presentation and for not succumbing the the playground of hubris that hurt intellectual arguments. Great job with this one!

he has about 75% of rsp plonked - drew is very meticulous about his safe spaces
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Drew1365 wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Drew, had you supported Trump and not actually bought into the media diatribe, your comments on this topic would be thumbworthy.


So ignore my comments. What about the piece itself? Does it matter that I'm the one who posted it?

If you're a typical RSPer then it absolutely matters, because HATE is the fuel that powers their keyboards.

But I didn't think you were a typical RSPer.


No thumb. But I'll give a nickel.

Don't get excited.

It's just today's interest off my glorious winnings.
 
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Les Marshall
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Drew still hasn't figured out that "numbers" don't automatically equate with relevant numbers. Likewise, racist rhetoric isn't necessarily equivalent to all ethnicities nor do those members of ethnic groups consider this to be the only factor influencing their vote.

For example, members of the Latino group might fear Trumps rhetoric while embracing the notion of overturning Roe v Wade as more important. Some members of the African American community might think opposing gay marriage is more important than some slightly more blatant racial animus. Members of many groups might actually believe that the implicit threat to their civil liberties is more nebulous than the slender reed of increased prosperity under some form of trade protectionism that most of them weren't born under.

In short, the fact that members of ethnic or religious groups voted for Trump isn't any sort of proof about whether or not his rhetoric or policies may be racist in some sense. All it means is that the voters priorities didn't rank that rhetoric more significantly.
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