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Subject: Finally learning Myth - a few questions rss

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Dave NP
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I backed the first Myth KS, and after seeing the feedback, shelved it to wait for updates. And then updates came and it still never made it off the shelf. With the arrival of the two expansion boxes, I thought it was time to finally figure out how to play this damn game.

I can't say it's been easy. Going through my head the entire time: "This is the REVISED rulebook??"

(It was. 2.0 on the cover)

Yeah, not so good in the rules writing department. But that's not news! After way more effort than should have been required, watching some of the official videos and reading bits of the original rulebook, I feel like I had enough of a handle on it to try a tile solo. There's no way I'm springing this on anyone else without practicing it myself first.

The basics aren't actually that complicated, although I don't have a huge amount of confidence I'm handling the monsters right and I haven't tried the traps yet. Either way, a few questions/confirmations:

1) Super obvious but: the Archer discards Readied arrows as she uses cards that require Ammo, right? Seems like a no-brainer, but damned if it was actually spelled out anywhere.

2) Non-Ongoing cards like the Brigand's Cunning or the Acolyte's Prayer: those last for a single Hero Cycle until they are cleared in the Hero Deck Phase, correct?

3) When the Brigand performs a Combo, does the attack card stack on the same slot as the Ongoing card that caused Shadows? I assume so given the presence of the Stacked keyword
Given that you lose Shadows after you perform a Combo, I assume you can immediately go back into Shadows using a react card, correct?

4) The Apprentice spell Blood of Gaia - does the "explosion" part of the effect need to be arranged in exactly the way it's depicted on the card, i.e. directly opposite the position of the Apprentice? For example, if the Apprentice is on a line of spaces with three minions, can he target a space off to the side and still hit all three of them (with a "sideways" explosion)?

5) The Apprentice has three attack cards (Life Sieve and two Attacks) that do not use the Focus keyword - instead they are "Arcane". The Enchanted Twig has the Magic keyword, not Arcane. I assume this is an oversight - common sense (and the fact that the Attack cards are Range: Weapon) says the Twig would be used for those cards - otherwise, what good is the Twig, and how would you use an Attack card?

Thanks in advance for any help. I'm sure I'll run into more questions when I play again.
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Kathrin
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Ubik2000 wrote:
1) Super obvious but: the Archer discards Readied arrows as she uses cards that require Ammo, right? Seems like a no-brainer, but damned if it was actually spelled out anywhere.

Yes.
It's spelled out on the Archer reference card: "An Ammo card must be ready in order to be discarded during an attack."

I'll leave the other questions to people who've actually played with the Apprentice and Brigand (I've only played with the other 3 base game heroes).
 
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John
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Ubik2000 wrote:
I backed the first Myth KS, and after seeing the feedback, shelved it to wait for updates. And then updates came and it still never made it off the shelf. With the arrival of the two expansion boxes, I thought it was time to finally figure out how to play this damn game.

I can't say it's been easy. Going through my head the entire time: "This is the REVISED rulebook??"

(It was. 2.0 on the cover)

Yeah, not so good in the rules writing department. But that's not news! After way more effort than should have been required, watching some of the official videos and reading bits of the original rulebook, I feel like I had enough of a handle on it to try a tile solo. There's no way I'm springing this on anyone else without practicing it myself first.

The basics aren't actually that complicated, although I don't have a huge amount of confidence I'm handling the monsters right and I haven't tried the traps yet. Either way, a few questions/confirmations:

1) Super obvious but: the Archer discards Readied arrows as she uses cards that require Ammo, right? Seems like a no-brainer, but damned if it was actually spelled out anywhere.

2) Non-Ongoing cards like the Brigand's Cunning or the Acolyte's Prayer: those last for a single Hero Cycle until they are cleared in the Hero Deck Phase, correct?

3) When the Brigand performs a Combo, does the attack card stack on the same slot as the Ongoing card that caused Shadows? I assume so given the presence of the Stacked keyword
Given that you lose Shadows after you perform a Combo, I assume you can immediately go back into Shadows using a react card, correct?

4) The Apprentice spell Blood of Gaia - does the "explosion" part of the effect need to be arranged in exactly the way it's depicted on the card, i.e. directly opposite the position of the Apprentice? For example, if the Apprentice is on a line of spaces with three minions, can he target a space off to the side and still hit all three of them (with a "sideways" explosion)?

5) The Apprentice has three attack cards (Life Sieve and two Attacks) that do not use the Focus keyword - instead they are "Arcane". The Enchanted Twig has the Magic keyword, not Arcane. I assume this is an oversight - common sense (and the fact that the Attack cards are Range: Weapon) says the Twig would be used for those cards - otherwise, what good is the Twig, and how would you use an Attack card?

Thanks in advance for any help. I'm sure I'll run into more questions when I play again.


1. You need to use a readied arrow.
2. All cards that do not have ongoing are cleared at the end of the hero phase
3. One card per slot unless it says to stack, I.e. like the some cards the acoloyte has
4. No it can start anywhere within range. Urban myth on YouTube has an excellent video rearding this topic.
5. I'd Ned to pull out my 2.0 item cards to check for you.
 
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Michael Callahan
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The attack cards use your primary weapon (thus the 'range; weapon')

'Arcane' is a key word that can be used by other abilities. Some cards only boost arcane attacks,.... etc..... so it has nothing to do with what item you are using it with.
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Steven Dwiggins
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Ubik2000 wrote:

5) The Apprentice has three attack cards (Life Sieve and two Attacks) that do not use the Focus keyword - instead they are "Arcane". The Enchanted Twig has the Magic keyword, not Arcane. I assume this is an oversight - common sense (and the fact that the Attack cards are Range: Weapon) says the Twig would be used for those cards - otherwise, what good is the Twig, and how would you use an Attack card?



The word "Arcane" I believe is the type of elemental attack (IE Fire, Ice, etc.) Some enemies are weak or strong against it.
 
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Stevie P
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5 - all the apprentice items that go in the primary slot say Magic. You are right though, if the card says Arcane it goes with the item that says Magic and not the one that says Focus.
 
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Dan Renwick
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Just to follow up on what John said about no. 4.

As I understand it, you can use an AoE in any way you want; turn it in any direction, so long as (a) all the targeted squares are within range, (b) the initially targeted square (the T in the card graphic) is in line-of-sight, and (c) you don't change the shape of the AoE.

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François Mahieu
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There's absolutely NO WAY to play the game reading the 2.0 rulebook alone. No way! In order to give it a try, you have at least to read the first draft of the rulebook, the new one, and watch videos, a lot. Then only you'll be able to try the game. Not play the game yet, just try them. This is just insane.



Yes I'm angry. It's been a week I've been struggling with this game.
 
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Jerry Tresman
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Darby_ wrote:
Just to follow up on what John said about no. 4.

As I understand it, you can use an AoE in any way you want; turn it in any direction, so long as (a) all the targeted squares are within range, (b) the initially targeted square (the T in the card graphic) is in line-of-sight, and (c) you don't change the shape of the AoE.



(a) all the targeted squares are within range

As I understood it only the T square needs to be in range and LOS for some attacks. Namely those that do not use physical projectiles (arrows,knives etc) such as most of the apprentice attacks and Magic fireball attacks.

If any other squares caught in the AOE are blocked (not in LOS) they cannot be hit.
 
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Jerry Tresman
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poifpoif wrote:
There's absolutely NO WAY to play the game reading the 2.0 rulebook alone. No way! In order to give it a try, you have at least to read the first draft of the rulebook, the new one, and watch videos, a lot. Then only you'll be able to try the game. Not play the game yet, just try them. This is just insane.





Yes I'm angry. It's been a week I've been struggling with this game.




Did you take advantage of the $6 option on their Journeyman kickstarter to receive all the updated cards?

The text and keywords help quite a lot. it may still be available and if not there is a fan made update from the digital copies.


If you haven't please just start playing and play through the issues , after a quest or two you will generally work out most things. However reaching out here is a good move and I am sure you will be having fun in no time.

Frustration and anger blocks creativity and learning so take a breath it really isn't that bad. it is very common and part of game development. If you have a version 1 and didn't take part in the KS and rules discussions I can see the reason for some frustration.

I managed with the version 1.0 - misplayed a few rules but most can be worked out. The first Rulebook had more examples/explanation.

Version 2.0 rules are a lot better and again things like AOE can be worked out.

I think it depends on your gaming background, if it is mostly euros and no RPG or similar games then it will be a lot harder for you.

I do agree that once the fan feedback highlighted issues - resulting in the version 2.0 rules and cards they should publish an official FAQ and links to videos they support such as the Urban myth ones. As well as forum links to downloads and the communities for Myth.

If you play in the spirit of the game it will work and I think it says as much in the rule book. This should all be detailed - use of QR codes for all sorts of products is common accepted practice and beginning to creep into rule books.


This game generates a great Narrative that is a huge part of it and often playing is more satisfying than "winning" - they tightened up the quests to satisfy the need by those brought up on descent and the like. This reduced some of the flexibility but increased the accessibility and if you have Version 1.0 quest cards you can play either free form of fixed "campaign style"

I never felt as frustrated with Myth as I did with Pathfinder Adventure Card Game. They abstracted far too much and the mechanics did not flow with the theme e.g. a character in a totally different location could assist another one but one in the same location couldn't. This was polished up and changed to some extent (new rulebook and FAQ) but the main changes needed were only carried forward to new expansions.

Megacon Games supported their product and made everything backward compatible with physical components available at cost.


https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1138953/unofficial-faq
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Kathrin
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poifpoif wrote:
There's absolutely NO WAY to play the game reading the 2.0 rulebook alone. No way! In order to give it a try, you have at least to read the first draft of the rulebook, the new one, and watch videos, a lot. Then only you'll be able to try the game. Not play the game yet, just try them. This is just insane.



Yes I'm angry. It's been a week I've been struggling with this game.


I understand the frustration. I've been struggling a lot, too.
I didn't read the "first draft" of the rulebook (if you mean the 1.0 rules), but I read the 2.0 rules several times, watched a couple of videos, and still felt very lost. My background is mostly euros, almost no RPG experience, limited miniature gaming etc. so Jerry might be right in that this makes it harder.

What helped me was getting rid of the idea I had to understand everything (or even half of it) before starting to play. I would make mistakes, and be confused, and that would be okay. It would all fall into place eventually if I kept playing, making notes of things I didn't understand or had questions about so I could ask about them later.
And it did come together nicely, and it didn't take long after I really started playing. I would likely have given up on the game if I hadn't had the help of an experienced player who put a lot of time and energy into explaining things to me and reminding me of the fun that lay ahead. But it wasn't someone local, so I had to ask in writing, which probably isn't much different from asking on the forums, here or on the Megacon Games forum. There are several knowledgable players around that are willing to help.

I still have a lot of questions, but they are now at a level that doesn't prevent me from enjoying the game. And I enjoy it a lot! It has gone from being my most frustrating, discouraging gaming experience to one of my most loved games, ever. I haven't played anything else that gives me the same kind of enjoyment and immersion. I love the mechanics, and I love how much room it leaves for you to decide what you want to do, and what you want your sessions to be like.

So, while I have been in the "angry and struggling" shoes and think the makers of the game could have done more to make getting started easier, the anger got me nowhere. It just made me take longer to get to the fun of enjoying what is, for me, a great and wonderfully unique game, despite its flaws. Jerry is right - the best thing is to play through the issues and ask about them. Or, if you don't think it is worth the time and effort, move on to something else (but you might miss out).
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MM
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Welcome aboard whistle

E Is Myth a bear to learn? Yes
E Does Myth require "homework" and "study" to understand? Without a doubt

E Can all the time required to pickup this game payoff in satisfying gameplay? Absolutely

There's a gem of a game in there once you get around the way McG approaches teaching it in the rules. At least that's what I think.

Above advice on getting the 2.0 base game cards is highly important IMO. I consider the 2.0 version of cards what the game should have been out of the box. The community did a tremendous amount of Alpha/Beta testing on Myth and the 2.0 cards reflect that work. Honestly, I shelved the 1.0 game until we had the 1.1 decks electronically. Those 1.0 cards, with the 1.0 rules were frustratingly maddening.

One of the elements that's sorely missing (there are many) from Myth is, in my opinion, a learn to play guide/quest/story. Many of us have stated this over the years. Finally, it appears that Megacon is listening as Brian mentioned in their latest update video that he was making a detailed document on how to play the first act of the module being released in their next "patch".

I have high expectations for this and hope they do a companion video for this as well - something in the same vein as their other Myth or Recon videos.

All I can say is I found the learning slog worth it. Not everyone does. You're at the right place here on BGG to get the necessary information on how to play.
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Dave NP
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Starman54 wrote:
As I understood it only the T square needs to be in range and LOS for some attacks. Namely those that do not use physical projectiles (arrows,knives etc) such as most of the apprentice attacks and Magic fireball attacks.

If any other squares caught in the AOE are blocked (not in LOS) they cannot be hit.


I watched one of the "Urban Myth" videos on YouTube about AoE effects after it was suggested above. I don't know what their authority is, but: while the first part of what you say above is in line with what they say, they make it clear that the "explosion" portion can hit monsters around corners that are out of LoS of the hero. It's at around the 10 minute mark of the video.

Their channel seems useful. I need to watch the one on minion movement - I don't think I get that at all (the "scout" thing is really confusing).
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Dave NP
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poifpoif wrote:
There's absolutely NO WAY to play the game reading the 2.0 rulebook alone. No way! In order to give it a try, you have at least to read the first draft of the rulebook, the new one, and watch videos, a lot. Then only you'll be able to try the game. Not play the game yet, just try them. This is just insane.



Yes I'm angry. It's been a week I've been struggling with this game.


Not to mention cross-referencing as many cards as possible. Believe me, I'm right there with you. The fact of the matter is these guys, for whatever reason, really struggle to make themselves understood clearly (heck, you can see it in the Kickstarter updates). At first I honestly thought it was some sort of translation issue, but no.

THAT SAID - once you wrap your head around the bare basics of the game play, I've found it starts falling into place. I personally hate watching videos to learn something, but in this case watching the official channel, especially the tile setup, helped a lot.

I'm not at the point that I've decided if it's worth it or not, but people here seem willing to vouch for it, and it seems promising overall.

Some the the design decisions though - just baffling. Sort your terminology out, guys!
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Jerry Tresman
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Ubik2000 wrote:
Starman54 wrote:
As I understood it only the T square needs to be in range and LOS for some attacks. Namely those that do not use physical projectiles (arrows,knives etc) such as most of the apprentice attacks and Magic fireball attacks.

If any other squares caught in the AOE are blocked (not in LOS) they cannot be hit.


I watched one of the "Urban Myth" videos on YouTube about AoE effects after it was suggested above. I don't know what their authority is, but: while the first part of what you say above is in line with what they say, they make it clear that the "explosion" portion can hit monsters around corners that are out of LoS of the hero. It's at around the 10 minute mark of the video.

Their channel seems useful. I need to watch the one on minion movement - I don't think I get that at all (the "scout" thing is really confusing).

This sort of situation is not that common, which his why I advise playing through issues as they happen. The impact many be one less enemy killed/wounded.

Thinking back I think I have only considered blocking terrain and maybe figures.

Should read :-

If any other squares caught in the AOE are blocked (by blocking terrain, not LOS) they cannot be hit.

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MM
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Ubik2000 wrote:
I watched one of the "Urban Myth" videos on YouTube about AoE effects after it was suggested above. I don't know what their authority is ....


Every video was done in conjunction with Megacon Games. They reviewed them before I posted to ensure accuracy.
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Dave NP
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Ah, are those your videos? They've been very helpful!
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MM
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Ubik2000 wrote:
Ah, are those your videos?


Indeed. Both myself and RandomFleming collaborated.

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Ubik2000 wrote:
They've been very helpful!


Thanks.
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