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Subject: No dice explosion variant rss

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Luca P
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I only played the game one time yesterday and I like it a lot.

The game seems to be pretty balanced between the two factions but with the dice explosion every action become really unpredictable.

What do you think about a no explosion dice variant to make the game more controllable? Someone of you tried it already?

For the next games I'll play with the official rules of the game but I'm thinking of this variant for some games when we want more control.
 
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Chris McLeod
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It's not a bad idea if you HATE exploding dice, but I would urge you to try a good handful of times more before deciding what the game should be.

Exploding dice make every action more dangerous. You've got to prepare for the chaos. Sometimes you'll do great, sometimes you'll fail miserably.

Happy gaming either way
 
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Jack Reda
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I find the exploding dice to be one of the most entertaining, unpredictable, and tense parts of the game.

That said, I would be interested in conditions where dice don't burst... a Sin card (or Upgrade), a particular token effect, etc.
 
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Alles ist nur Illusion
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I fear the balance would sway to the FAITH side if you were to lose the exploding dice mechanism; there would simply be no counter for the 'no result' side of the sin dice.

It is an interesting thought for sure.
I just think that:

1// you would actually be modifying one of the core mechanics. Well, not actually a mechanic, but a big part of the lurking danger (especially while making fire checks)
2// in my opinion, the game would become a lot more complicated and more of a puzzle (which does suit your wish for more control). Again, the sin player would be the victim, being forced to take less chances and start turtling just to have a fighting chance
3// you would be taking away all my fun and evil laughs (I mostly play sin at the moment). All kidding aside, isn't it NICE to throw three dice but roll 5 more due to exploding dice just popping up every time?

Would love to hear an idea for an extra perk for the sin player to counter having no exploding dice. My fellow players would surely dig that; the frustration oozes out of them when I throw 11 dice and then some more after that
 
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Claus Appel
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Iudex wrote:
I fear the balance would sway to the FAITH side if you were to lose the exploding dice mechanism; there would simply be no counter for the 'no result' side of the sin dice.

Why would this sway balance?

During Fights, the "eye" on FAITH dice is effectively the same as the "miss" on the Sin dice (except for a few rare Hero abilities). Isn't it the same?

If you still believe that removing exploding dice warps the balance in FAITH favour, then how about letting the "exploding" side on a Sin die act as "any result you want" like the "sword" on a FAITH die?
 
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CK Lai
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Fangtsu wrote:
The game seems to be pretty balanced between the two factions but with the dice explosion every action become really unpredictable.


Yup. You should really complain to CMON... those guys never bothered to play test the game with exploding dice. Shocking, for an almost $1m Kickstarter. support@cmon.com is where to address your complaint.
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Stuart Holttum
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Chinkster wrote:
Fangtsu wrote:
The game seems to be pretty balanced between the two factions but with the dice explosion every action become really unpredictable.


Yup. You should really complain to CMON... those guys never bothered to play test the game with exploding dice. Shocking, for an almost $1m Kickstarter. support@cmon.com is where to address your complaint.


Exactly - this guy only had to play ONE game before concluding that a core rule was broken. He didn't even have to try it with different combinations of Heroes and Sins. Shame on CMON for not bothering to try their rules out before shipping the game.
 
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I honestly forgot about that completely. You are of course very right!

An additional remark: the disadvantage to the sin player would still be that he/she could only pile monsters together for a maximum effect. The heroes can also rely on upgrade cards. Sin cards do the same, but give less explicit perks, that are not permanent.

Either way, I like the quirkiness and do believe it has been properly tested. Of course, results may vary (all praise the dice gods!).
 
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Luca P
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Stu Holttum wrote:
Chinkster wrote:
Fangtsu wrote:
The game seems to be pretty balanced between the two factions but with the dice explosion every action become really unpredictable.


Yup. You should really complain to CMON... those guys never bothered to play test the game with exploding dice. Shocking, for an almost $1m Kickstarter. support@cmon.com is where to address your complaint.


Exactly - this guy only had to play ONE game before concluding that a core rule was broken. He didn't even have to try it with different combinations of Heroes and Sins. Shame on CMON for not bothering to try their rules out before shipping the game.


You are two really funny guys shake

Which part of the phrase "the game seems to be pretty balanced" you didn't understand? I've not said that the game is broken, I don't think that at all and even if I suspected something like this one game is insufficent to say something like that.

But sometimes I'd prefer a game in which I can make a more precise estimate of the result of an action and with exploding dices this is simply impossibile.

I opened this thread to ask to players more experienced than me if this idea could harm the balance of the game and I thank everyone that made a polite and useful answer to my idea.

So if I understand this correctly the sin player could have some problem this way and it will became less dangerous.

I really like the idea that The Warp suggested of some effect that for just one turn could stop the ability of dice explosion, this will answer to my idea of a more predictable battle in a key moment of the game without eliminate the fun of the dice explosion.
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Claus Appel
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Stu Holttum wrote:
Chinkster wrote:
Fangtsu wrote:
The game seems to be pretty balanced between the two factions but with the dice explosion every action become really unpredictable.


Yup. You should really complain to CMON... those guys never bothered to play test the game with exploding dice. Shocking, for an almost $1m Kickstarter. support@cmon.com is where to address your complaint.


Exactly - this guy only had to play ONE game before concluding that a core rule was broken. He didn't even have to try it with different combinations of Heroes and Sins. Shame on CMON for not bothering to try their rules out before shipping the game.

There have been many of these posts saying "the game IS balanced, and that is an objective fact, so shut up about your group's experience". Personally I don't find these posts very constructive. IMO, the condescending sarcastic tone of these two posts in particular doesn't help either.
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Stuart Holttum
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SpectrumDT wrote:

There have been many of these posts saying "the game IS balanced, and that is an objective fact, so shut up about your group's experience". Personally I don't find these posts very constructive. IMO, the condescending sarcastic tone of these two posts in particular doesn't help either.


Is the game balanced? I have no idea, I haven't played nearly enough games of it to draw a conclusion.

Something that always annoys me though, are the armchair designers who can play a game a handful of times and immediately determine how they could have done it so very much better. In one case, I recall a guy who hadn't played the game, didn't even own it, and was proposing multiple revisions.

Perhaps that's not warranted in this case, but it seemed at the very least worthy of a Tongue in cheek poke.
 
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Jack Reda
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To be fair, game enjoyment is subjective. You don't have to play a game to be able to think of variants YOU might enjoy. I played it a handful of times, and thought of quite a few variants I think I'd like to try out as well. My variants won't be to everyone's taste, but I imagine some people would like them as much as I do.
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Claus Appel
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The Warp wrote:
To be fair, game enjoyment is subjective. You don't have to play a game to be able to think of variants YOU might enjoy. I played it a handful of times, and thought of quite a few variants I think I'd like to try out as well. My variants won't be to everyone's taste, but I imagine some people would like them as much as I do.

I agree completely. It's not a tournament. Games are supposed to be fun. If you can improve your group's enjoyment by adding houserules that change the balance, great!
 
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