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Subject: When it will be delivered? rss

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Danilo Festa
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The KS campaign says: ESTIMATED DELIVERY Nov 2016.
Can it be confirmed?
 
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Steven
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They are still not sure. I did ask and get a little bit of info on the KS comments page. Basically asked if it would be reasonable to estimate delivery from local hubs to backers starting in early February (if nothing else went wrong). Their response was that my estimate was a good one. I think thats the closest delivery date confirmation we are going to get until its on the boat. They are a good company that delivers a quality product, but anyone who backed 3rd edition, looked at previous fulfillment dates, or listened to previous backers during the KS campaign should have realized that the November date was a fairy tail unfortunately.
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Matthew Gabbert
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I backed Catacombs 3E, which ended up being 10 months late. (The campaign was April 2014, with estimated delivery November 2014, and actual delivery September 2015!)

I recall seeing an interview from Essen 2014 where Elzra still claimed that they were hoping to be delivering in November 2014 when there was clearly no possible way that they were going to make that date. But I cut them some slack because they were new at this.

I like Catacombs 3E, my kids love it, and I'm glad I have it. But when I saw the Catacombs & Castles campaign in June 2016 showing an obviously unfinished game and estimating a completely unrealistic November 2016 delivery, I balked. Either Elzra hadn't learned from the experience of their first campaign or they were being blatantly dishonest. And from the last campaign update I viewed last month, they are still demoing a prototype. At this point, I think a February 2016 delivery date is extremely optimistic. With luck, you'll all have your games by next summer. Fingers crossed.

As for whether Elzra is a good company, I'll agree that they deliver (eventually) a good product. But they are not a good company when it comes to scheduling. Some might say, oh well, that's Kickstarter for you -- KS games are always late. To that I can point to a number of companies (e.g., Red Raven, Action Phase, Gamelyn, Stonemaier, Green Couch, and more) that I've backed multiple times that consistently deliver their games on time, even early, or rarely 2-4 weeks late due to a local shipping snafu.

There are a lot of game companies out there competing for our money; I'd rather support the ones who use KS to fund their manufacturing, rather than their development.
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David Allen
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I bought Catacombs 3E used on eBay for a ridiculous price, and I love it, and I play it whenever I can. BUT, I cancelled my backing of this one for the reasons outlined by Matthew, and because I have never, ever seen Catacombs 3E for sale, new, at a reasonable price. I guess I have been under the impression that Kickstarter campaigns were to get the game off the ground by offsetting the startup print costs and so on. But it seems as if the actual retail version of Catacombs was never ever sold, or perhaps very briefly. It's not clear that it ever came back in print. All of this casts grave doubts on when or even if this one will be delivered. As much as I think this game looks cool, I don't like to reward bad behavior.
 
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Who Am I?
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A retail version of Catacombs 3rd Edition was available, but only briefly. This is a fact and not hard to verify. Sorry that you missed it.

Based on posts from Elzra, it sounds like they were surprised by the amount of post-KickStarter demand and that the retail copies sold through almost immediately. A reprint is happening now - at the same time as the Catacombs & Castles release.

People are free to put their money where they want, to preorder a game or not as they see fit. Being sorely disappointed by delays, or disapproving of how a company uses their limited amount of time and money is entirely your prerogative. But there has been steady production progress and regular (sometimes less frequent than I would like, but still regular) communication.

That is to say, the "grave doubts" you are voicing about the game ever being available seem to be opinions you've formed despite all current evidence pointing otherwise.
 
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Matthew Gabbert
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I don't doubt that it will be released eventually, probably this summer.

I'll point out, though, that Elzra is still giving out unrealistic dates.

In a comment from 1/29, they say that "fulfillment will probably start sometime in late March for US backers" which would be just barely possible if the finished games were being loaded onto a ship at that time.

But in a comment from yesterday, 2/16, they say that they "are awaiting delivery for the final sets of physical proofs" and that they "have a face to face meeting with the printer and production manager this weekend at the New York Toy Fair".

From that, I take it that production has not even begun, so a late March date is utter nonsense.

They go on to say that they are working on an expansion that they plan to add to the same print run, so I'm not sure how they can be expecting a "final set" of physical proofs if they are still developing more material to add to the production run.

I love the enthusiasm they have for designing and developing their games, but I don't believe any dates they give when it comes to production and delivery.
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Who Am I?
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I agree with all that you've said - which is why I don't blame anyone who chooses not to back or cancels an existing order. It can be frustrating to wait. On the other hand, it can be frustrating to miss out on a small print run.

Are Elzra terrible with giving dates that are accurate or realistic? Yep, and the delays in this campaign do resemble the previous one.

Do Elzra release very good games (eventually)? Yes, at least so far. Which is why I prefer to give benefit of the doubt for now.

Granted there's a short track record on both points... but without proof to the contrary it seems unfair to say their game will never be delivered.
 
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David Allen
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oneiric wrote:
A retail version of Catacombs 3rd Edition was available, but only briefly. This is a fact and not hard to verify. Sorry that you missed it.


Like I said, perhaps very briefly. My own, purely anecdotal experience is that I never saw it for sale at my local game store or at any of the OLGS I am familiar with.

oneiric wrote:
Based on posts from Elzra, it sounds like they were surprised by the amount of post-KickStarter demand and that the retail copies sold through almost immediately. A reprint is happening now - at the same time as the Catacombs & Castles release.

People are free to put their money where they want, to preorder a game or not as they see fit. Being sorely disappointed by delays, or disapproving of how a company uses their limited amount of time and money is entirely your prerogative. But there has been steady production progress and regular (sometimes less frequent than I would like, but still regular) communication.

That is to say, the "grave doubts" you are voicing about the game ever being available seem to be opinions you've formed despite all current evidence pointing otherwise.


Well, in my opinion their communication has been pretty slipshod. But to be fair, I cancelled my backing in November. And there are some other, minor issues having to do with the rollout of Catacombs, issues with the rule book, pricing structure, etc., all of which led me to withdraw my backing. So, honestly, I wouldn't say ALL evidence is to the contrary (that they will not deliver the product in a timely fashion), but that's just a matter of opinion.
 
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Matthew Gabbert
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Out of a sense of morbid curiosity, I checked the recent comments for the KS campaign. According to a post from Elzra on 6/10, the game is "nearly" ready to ship from China, they hope before the end of June.

If they make that date, I imagine that would mean we'll start seeing unboxing videos posted here in September, which will be nice. Only 10 months late, just like the previous campaign, so I guess it could be worse.

Btw, they are now pinning the delays on a dishonest Chinese wood supplier, not their on giving completely unrealistic dates for an unfinished design a year ago.

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