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Dust 1947» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Captured Vehicles - Which Ones Are Worth Taking for Which Factions? rss

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For those not familiar, in Dust 1947 you can use *one* captured vehicle from another faction in your army. The vehicle costs two more points than normal and only vehicles on the following list can be used:

ALLIES
Wildfire
Mickey and Light Mickey
Pounder and Light Pounder
Skysweeper


AXIS
Heinrich and Tropical Heinrich
Loth
Luther
Ludwig
Flamm-Luther
Jagdluther


SSU
Nadya
Natalya
Natasha and Natasha Tsh
Nikita
Aleksei
Red Fury


Frankly, that seems like kind of a disappointing list, at first glance, but let's look at things in more detail and see if it's better than it appears.


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ALLIES

Wildfire

AXIS
I think the question for the Axis is whether a Wildfire for 9 pts is better than a Tropical Heinrich for 8 pts.

And I think the answer is "possibly". The Wildfire is much faster than the Heinrich (3/6 vs 2/4) *and* it has Advanced Reactive Fire, which is pretty nice.

There are definitely some downsides to the Wildfire, though. For one thing, it's Armor 2 while the Trop Heinrich is Armor 3, so many basic infantry weapons like machine guns, some assault rifles, and sniper rifles can damage the Wildfire but not the Heinrich. For another, while the Wildfire's main weapon is better than the Heinrich's, the Heinrich has an extra machine gun that the Wildfire doesn't, so the Heinrich will roll more dice than the Wildfire in a lot of situations.

VERDICT
: The Wildfire has enough going for it that I can see players who value mobility using one.


SSU
The case for Wildfire use for a SSU player is a little harder to make.

The main alternative for the SSU player is probably the Nastasia, which is also 9 pts. The Natasia is Armor 4, has six health (instead of four for the Wildfire), *and* it has Damage Resilient. So, it is just immensely tougher than the Wildfire. Also, the Nastasia's main gun is slightly better overall than the Wildfire's. And, finally, the Nastasia's move is 3/4, so the Wildfire is only faster on a March Move.

VERDICT: Probably only worth it if you *really* like Advanced Reactive Fire (I think the Mao is the only SSU walker with that skill, at the moment).



Mickey and Light Mickey

AXIS
The Axis doesn't have a close equivalent to the Mickey. The closest is probably the Stummel, which also has a range 8 Grenade weapon for its main gun. At 15 pts, the Mickey is one more point than the Stummel. The Mickey is one armor class better (4 vs 3) and the Mickey will be easier to hide since it's not a Large vehicle like the Stummel.

Still, the Stummel can actually carry troops, which is a pretty significant advantage, and the Stummel's Dual Machineguns are rolling a lot more dice against most target's than the Heavy Machinegun of the Mickey (the Heavy Machinegun is range 8 vs range 6 for the Stummel, though).

The Mickey Light is just like the Mickey, except it's Armor 3 instead of Armor 4 and it costs 12 points instead of 15.


VERDICT: I'd probably only pick a Mickey over a Stummel if I never used troop transports or my enemy liked to use a lot of units that can 1-shot Armor 3 but not Armor 4 Vehicles (like the Red Fury).

The cheaper cost of the Mickey Light makes it a bit more appealing, but I'd certainly pick the Stummel over it if I liked using troop transports.


SSU
With the SSU, the Mickey and Mickey Light are even less appealing. Why? Well, the SSU has the Nikita, which has the same armor and health as the Mickey, has Damage Resilient, can Air Assault, and has a main gun that throws twice as many dice against enemy infantry. All for only 10 AP.

Sure, the Mickey and Mickey Light have two machineguns that the Nikita doesn't have, but for the 5 AP difference between the Nikita and the Mickey, you could buy a whole infantry squad which would more than make up for it.


VERDICT: Really hard to see why an SSU player would go for either a Mickey or Mickey Light.



Pounder and Light Pounder


AXIS
For the 15 AP that the Pounder will cost you, an Axis player can field a Jagdluther which is one armor class higher, has more health, and has a main gun that is longer range *and* more than twice as damaging against most armor.

Now, the Pounder is faster (3/5 instead of 2/4), has an extra machine gun, and it's main gun is on a turret, but I don't think that comes close to compensating for what the Jagdluther brings to the table.

A Pounder Light only costs two points less than a regular Pounder, but, at Armor 3, is even less survivable. I'm sure most Axis players would happily find the 2 AP to step up to the Jagdluther.


VERDICT: Axis players should pass on both of these unless you REALLY value mobility.


SSU
For 16 AP (or one point more than a Pounder), an SSU player can field a Matrioska which, like the Jagdluther, is better armored, has more health, and has a much better main gun than the Pounder. The Matrioska even has the extra machinegun that the Jagdluther lacks. Or, if you wanted to forgo the extra machineguns and save 4 AP, you can field a KV-152.


VERDICT: As with the Axis, not much reason to field a Pounder or Pounder Light unless you are very fond of extra mobility.



Skysweeper

AXIS
The Skysweeper is an interesting one. I'm normally not a fan of Huge Vehicles because they can be such a pain to maneuver around the battlefield, but the Skysweeper has a lot going for it: a main gun that's deadly against infantry, aircraft, and light Armor; a ton of secondary weapons; a good amount of armor and health; smoke launchers; *and* Advance Reactive Fire.

That's a lot of value, even with the two extra points (17 AP total) using it as a captured vehicle will cost you.

The Axis doesn't really have a close equivalent. The Sturmkonig is similar, but it's 5 AP more (with a much better main gun, though). There's also the Jagdloki at 15 AP, but it can't come close to throwing out the sheer volume of fire that the Skysweeper can, and it's missing Advanced Reactive Fire and the smoke launchers.


VERDICT: I think that the Skysweeper definitely brings something unique to the table for an Axis player. Absolutely worth experimenting with in your army.



SSU
The SSU is in a similar situation to the Axis in that it doesn't really have a close equivalent to the Skysweeper. The similar units are either significantly more expensive (the Mao) or are slightly cheaper but lacking a lot of the extras that make the Skysweeper interesting (the Babushka).


VERDICT: Personally, the Mao is *such* a good unit that I would probably find the 5 AP extra to field that instead, but the Skysweeper is still worth experimenting with.
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AXIS

Heinrich and Tropical Heinrich


ALLIES
Either a Heinrich or Tropical Heinrich is going to cost an Allied player 10 AP. For that many points, you can get a Recon Mickey, which has the same armor and health, is faster (3/5 instead of 2/4), still has Scout, has the Artillery Observer skill on top of that, and has two extra machineguns.

VERDICT: Kind of hard to see the point of fielding either Heinrich when the Recon Mickey is so good.


SSU
For 1 less AP than a Heinrich or Tropical Heinrich, an SSU player can field an Aleksei, which is faster (3/4 instead of 2/4), is Airmobile, has smoke launchers, the same armor, *and* Damage Resilience. The Aleksei's main gun does less damage but has longer range (10 vs 8), and it does have a secondary machinegun. The Heinrich doesn't have a machinegun at all, and, while the Trop Heinrich does have one, it can't fire at aircraft.

VERDICT: Aleksei really seems to be the way to go.



Loth

ALLIES
A Loth will cost an Allied player 11 AP. But for 9 AP, the Allied player can field a Mickey ARV which as the same armor & health, also has Mechanic, also is an Engineering Vehicle, is faster (3/5 vs 2/4), and has an extra machinegun.

It does *not*, though, have the Loth's smoke launchers, Charge, or Grapple skills.

VERDICT: The Mickey ARV's extra speed and MG would make it my choice, but the smoke launchers on the Loth are appealing, since the Allies only get smoke launchers on their larger vehicles. Also, since the Loth can Grapple and the Mickey ARV can't, it can cut through barbed wire while the Mickey ARV is unable to.


SSU
The SSU has no shortage of Engineering Vehicles. None of them is really a close match to the Loth, though, since they are either lacking in ranged attacks (Marlen, Mikhail, & Maksim) or can't Charge & Grapple (Melor).

Still, all of them are faster than the Loth (3/4 instead of 2/4), have the same armor and health, *and* they have Damage Resilience. Also, if you're willing to forgo ranged attacks, they are dirt cheap. You can get two Marlens for 1 AP less than a single Loth.


VERDICT: With the varied and cheap choices for Engineering Vehicles that the SSU has, the Loth doesn't seem to make much sense as an alternative.



Luther

ALLIES
The Luther has always been able to do a little bit of everything. It's got weaponry that make it a threat to infantry, aircraft, and light vehicles; it's claw means it can perform engineering actions and cut through barbed wire; and it has enough armor & health to give it decent survivability.

However, you do know what they say about being a jack-of-all-trades: You're the master of none. So, while the Luther can damage most targets, it's not that great at killing anything in particular. And while it is an Engineering Vehicle, it's *not* a Mechanic. Also, at 13 AP, it's not exactly cheap.

VERDICT: For the Allies, if you want an Engineering Vehicle, you should probably just field a Mickey ARV and save yourself 4 AP. Unless you want something that can cut through barbed wire, then maybe you could justify the Luther (but then there's also a captured Loth for two points less that can repair...). If you want a medium armor unit that can damage a variety of targets, a Recon Mickey is a good choice (which would save you 3 AP over a Luther), or you can spend a bit more (16 AP) on a Rattler and get much better weapons and Advanced Reactive Fire.


SSU
As with the Loth, the SSU's cheap Engineering Vehicles make it hard to justify using a captured Luther. For 14 AP (or 1 AP more than the Luther), an SSU player can field an Aleksei *and* a Marlen, which give you all of the capabilities of the Luther, and a lot more.

VERDICT: As stated above, go with the Aleksei + Marlen combo instead.



Ludwig

ALLIES
A captured Ludwig will cost an Allied player 14 AP to field. For 1 AP, more, though, that Allied player can field a Barking Dog which has the same armor & health, has a main gun that hits *much* harder, is faster (3/5 vs 2/4), and gets an extra machinegun.

The main downside of the Barking Dog is that you have to reload the main gun after every shot. Also, the Barking Dog's gun has two less range than the Ludwig's (12 vs 14). Finally, the Ludwig does get smoke launchers, which the Barking Dog does not.

VERDICT: I'd go with the Barking Dog unless I really hated having to reload or I really liked smoke launchers.


SSU
The SSU is certainly not lacking in anti-armor Vehicles. If you wanted to save 2 AP, you could field a KV-152 which loses the machinegun and smoke launchers of the Ludwig but gives you a better main gun, 1 more armor, and 1 more health.

Personally, though, I'd probably find 3 AP over the Ludwig to put a Sergei on the table. That gives you a vehicle with Armor 6 vs Armor 4, one more health, the very important Damage Resilient skill, two more machine guns, and a main gun that is better against heavier armor (although it's worse against lighter armor since it rolls fewer dice).

VERDICT: With such monstrous anti-armor vehicles already available to the SSU, fielding a Ludwig doesn't seem to get you much unless, as with the Allied comparison, you really love smoke launchers.



Flamm-Luther

ALLIES
A Flamm-Luther will cost 14 AP as a captured vehicle. The closest Allied equivalent is the Hot Dog, which costs 3 AP less, is faster (3/5 instead of 2/4), and has an extra machinegun. But the Hot Dog also has two fewer health, one worse armor class, and, most importantly, its flame weapon rolls half as many dice.

VERDICT: I normally like my flame units to be as fast as possible to make up for their short range, but the better survivability and weaponry of the Flamm-Luther would probably trump that in this case.



SSU
Unlike the Allies, the SSU has no shortage of flame-thrower wielding vehicles. The closest to the Flamm-Luther is probably the Nadya, which also has two flame-throwers. Those flame-throwers are slightly worse against most armor, though, and the Nadya doesn't have a machinegun, is one armor class worse, and has two fewer health. However, the Nadya is also faster (3/4 instead of 2/4), is Airmobile, has smoke launchers, and is Damage Resilient. And all for only 8 AP.

VERDICT: In my experience, often the trickiest part of using flame-thrower Vehicles is getting them into range before they're destroyed. The Nadya's airmobility, faster speed, and smoke launchers definitely give it the edge there. This would be a tough choice if the two units were similarly priced, but you can just about get two Nadya's for the cost of one Flamm-Luther, which makes the choice easy.



Jagdluther


ALLIES
For two AP more than the 17 AP that a Jagdluther will cost an Allied player, you can field a Six-Shooter which has a gun that does the exact same damage but that also can be Salvoed to do *double* that damage (it is shorter ranged, though - 12 vs 18). Also, the Six-Shooter is one armor class better (6 vs 5), has two extra machine guns, and has smoke launchers.

VERDICT: Unless you play on big boards where the extra range of the Jagdluther is important, the Six-Shooter seems to be a much better choice.


SSU
As mentioned above in the discussion of the Ludwig, 17 AP gets an SSU player a Sergei, which is just a beast of a Vehicle. Its main gun is actually not quite as good as the Jagdluther against light Vehicles since it rolls fewer dice, but the Sergei has two heavy machine guns that can damage light Vehicles, which more than makes up for it. Plus, the extra armor and Damage Resilience that the Sergei has make it a lot tougher than the Jagdluther.

VERDICT: Easy win for the Sergei, I think.





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SSU

Nadya

ALLIES
As with the Flamm-Luther, the closest unit that the Allies have is the Hot Dog, which has faster March Move, two machineguns, and costs 1 AP more. However, the Nadya's flame weapon is rolling twice as many dice (although it's slightly less damaging against medium and heavy Vehicles when it hits), it is Damage Resilient, and it has smoke launchers.

VERDICT: The Nadya's better flame weapon and Damage Resilience would make it my choice, although there is something to be said for the extra utility that the machineguns give to the Hot Dog.


AXIS
As discussed above in the section on the list of Axis walkers that can be used as captured vehicles, the Flamm-Luther is probably the closest Axis unit to the Nadya.

VERDICT: It was easy to pick the Nadya over the Flamm-Luther for an SSU player, since they have a 6 AP cost difference. It's closer for the Axis player with the Nadya only being 2 AP cheaper, but it's greater speed and smoke launchers would still probably make it my choice.



Natalya

ALLIES
The only Engineering Vehicle that the Allies have is the Mickey ARV, so that's the closest unit the Allies have to the Natalya. Unlike the Natalya, though, the Mickey has no close combat capability, no Damage Resilience, no smoke launchers, and can't cut through barbed wire. But it does have two machineguns (the Natalya has no ranged attacks whatsoever), is a Mechanic, and costs 1 AP less than the Natalya.

VERDICT: The Natalya definitely brings something that the Allies don't have: a melee walker. Unfortunately, it's not like melee walkers exactly dominate the game, so not having one's really not much of an issue. If the Natalya had Mechanic it would be more tempting, but I'd probably stick with the Mickey ARV as an Allied player.



AXIS
The Loth wouldn't be a good choice for an SSU player to use as a captured vehicle, but is it better than a captured Natalya for an Axis player? The Loth has a machinegun, so it can also do (some) damage at range as well as in melee, but the Natalya's chainsaws are *much* better close combat weapons than the Loth's claws. Both units have smoke launchers, but the Natalya is faster and has Damage Resilience. But the Loth is a Mechanic and costs 1 AP less.


VERDICT: The speed and Damage Resilience of the Nadaya are very tempting, but if I'm bothering to field an Engineering Vehicle, I probably want to be able to repair other vehicles, which the Nadaya can't do. So, I'd pick the Loth.



Natasha and Natasha Tsh

ALLIES
The closest Allied units are probably the Mickey and Mickey Light, which cost 13 AP and 10 AP (the Natasha and Natasha Tsh cost 11 & 10 AP).

The Mickeys' main gun is longer range (8 vs 6), but does significantly less damage against most targets. The Mickeys do get two machineguns (the normal Natasha doesn't have a machinegun at all and the Natasha TSH only has one). The Natashas, though, have Damage Resilience and smoke launchers.


VERDICT: The Natasha's better main gun and better survivability make it the winner, in my book.


AXIS
The closest Axis unit to these is the Otto. Since the Otto is just a captured KV47, it has very similar stats. Same armor, same health, same movement, Damage Resilience, and smoke launchers. However, the Otto does have a few tricks of its own, such as the Scout ability and a weapon that is much more effective against armor. However, the Otto's weapon also has half the range of the Natashas' and has to reload after every shot. Also, the Otto costs one more AP than a Natasha and two more than a Natasha Tsh.

VERDICT: The Otto's extra punch against armor is nice, but if I'm fielding a unit with a grenade weapon, it's probably because I want to use it against Infantry, and the two Natashas are just as effective there, as well as having longer range, not having to reload, and costing less. My pick would probably be the normal Natasha for the extra health and armor.



Nikita

ALLIES and AXIS
The Nikita is *very* similar to the Natasha, except it's gun is range 8 instead of 6, is worse against most armor, it doesn't have smoke launchers, and it costs 1 AP more.

VERDICT: I'd take either a Natasha or a Nikita over the Allied and Axis equivalent units. Which one would depend if I felt that the Nikita's extra range outweighed its lack of smoke launchers and weaker damage against light vehicles.


Aleksei

ALLIES
The closest comparison to the Aleksei on the Allied side is probably the Recon Mickey. The Aleksei has a slightly better main gun, Damage Resilience, and smoke launchers, but the Recon Mickey has one more health, two more machine guns, the Artillery Observer skill, and the Scout skill. Also, the Recon Mickey costs 1 AP less.

VERDICT: This is a tough one. I'm normally a big fan of Damage Resilient units, but the extra firepower and additional skills that the Recon Mickey has are appealing. I'd probably end up still going with the Aleksei for the extra range on its main gun, though, unless I really wanted the Mickey's Artillery Observer skill.


AXIS
A captured Aleksei will cost an Axis player 11 AP, which is the same as a Tropical Loki. They're both Armor 3, but the Loki has one more health (5 vs 4) which the Aleksei counters with Damage Resilience. The Aleksei is faster (3/4 vs 2/4) and has smoke launchers. The Loki, though, has a better main gun, an extra machinegun, and Advanced Reactive Fire.

VERDICT: The better weaponry and Advanced Reactive Fire win it for the Tropical Loki, I think.


Red Fury

ALLIES
At 9 AP, a captured Red Fury slots right between the Bushmaster (7 AP) and the Light Pounder (11 AP). Compared to the Bushmaster, the Red Fury has much longer range (14 vs 8), is slower (2/4 vs 3/6), has one less health, and its main gun is worse against light armor.

Compared to the Light Pounder, it's one armor class worse, slower, has half the health, and its main gun has two less range. However, the Red Fury's main gun is also more damaging against most Vehicles. And while the Pounder has two machineguns with good range, the three submachine guns that the Red Fury has can put out a surprisingly good number of dice against light infantry (if they're close enough).

VERDICT: It's a little hard to pick a clear winner here. If you want the best mobility, best damage against light to medium Vehicles, and want to save some AP, I'd pick the Bushmaster. If you want something tougher with longer range and accept less damage, go for the Light Pounder. If you want the range with a bit more damage while saving a couple of AP, then the Red Fury is worth a shot.


AXIS
The Fallschirm RSO Pak 40 is a pretty close equivalent to the Red Fury. Both are armor 2, have 3 health, move 2/5, and both would cost an Axis player 9 AP. However, bot the main gun and the submachine guns on the Red Fury are a bit better than their counterparts on the Pak 40. The Pak 40, though, has the Airborne skill, which can be put to interesting tactical uses.

VERDICT: I think it really comes down to whether you value maximizing your damage potential (in which case, go with the Red Fury) or maximizing your placement options (in which case get the Pak 40).

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Marwan Marwan مروان مروان
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This is great...THANKS!

 
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Frankysan
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This is really, really useful. I'm going to mention this in the next episode of my podcast, if you don't mind.
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Frankysan wrote:
This is really, really useful. I'm going to mention this in the next episode of my podcast, if you don't mind.


Sure, mention away!
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Lance Kizer
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So if I were to build a strictly Mercenary Faction, what captured vehicle list would I take from? All three?
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Marwan Marwan مروان مروان
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I would think you would be able to pick and choose from all three.

Are there any restrictions on building a Mercenary only army?
 
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victor araujo
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marwan_marwan wrote:

I would think you would be able to pick and choose from all three.

Are there any restrictions on building a Mercenary only army?


Well in the rulebook the capture vehicle part says you can only have one captured vehicle. Right above that, the part explaining faction bonus for mercenaries pretty much says the same thing.


HOWEVER, the mercenary platoons list unavailable captured vehicles used as support units. I take this as if you have to choose a sponsor or who you're being hired by. So you're a Merc unit with units on loan from the Allies and you have a single captured Axis walker... and no SSU
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Lance Kizer
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Victor - Thanks.

Yea I understood choosing only one captured vehicle. I was looking at building a Red Fury and replace the three SSU figures with Mercenary Mechanic figures. That would still work. Visually it would have female crew members but it would be a SSU unit.

So the best bet would be to build three vehicles/walkers - one from Allied, one SSU and one Axis - to play based on sponsor I might like to choose for a game.
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