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Blood Bowl (2016 edition)» Forums » General

Subject: The Million $£€ question. Is it worth for owners of the old editions? rss

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José Ibáñez
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Hi,

Just a bit of info before people start to give answers; I own a 2nd edition set plus the All Star book, Death Zone supplement and a few teams, I have downloaded the latest living rule-book, so basically I am all set.

So my question is: Is there enough in this box to justify a purchase? I mean have they changed the rules or it is a re-skin of the latest rulebook? are the stats of the teams star/players the same or GW have just changed the formula a bit so you have to purchase all over again to be able to play leagues, etc. I am curious.

Thanks for your replies.

BR

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Brent Brown
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Wondering the same. I own two of the previous version minis for several teams (six, I think). I've been curious what can be reused from the older sets & minis.
 
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Clinton Rice
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The rules are very much that of the latest living rulebook. The stats are the same (with a couple tweaks in place) with the same rosters. Human Catchers cost 60k, down 10k from before.

But if you want to play against people with the new edition, keep in mind that the new boards and templates are bigger, so your old passing template is worthless now on a 4e board.

The goal of this edition wasn't to be different. It was just to get it back out there. And make it look a little better at the same time.

Double-sided pitches, d16s to replace number counters, two sets of color-coded dice, a free app (that will probably replace roster sheets). That kind of stuff. Improvements rather than Alterations.
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John Middleton
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To play any leagues at stores, I would bet you need new stats, boards and templates. Who knows about the old minis. Probably ok to use them all if they have current stats in books.



GW did increase the square size, as mentioned above, because the minis are physically larger.


If you think about it this way.... a team is $35.00 and the dice are $12.50 a set.

You get two of these in the base game for total of $95.00.


So everything else in the box is just $5.00.







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José Ibáñez
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Yep, we all knew that GW was going to do something to make old players to empty their pockets once again. That´s why I was asking.
Aside of the scale creep of the miniatures, (I bet that the old minis look like dwarfs compared with the new ones)they have made the old templates useless. It just shows that GW is still GW.
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Clinton Rice
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xnachox wrote:

It just shows that GW is still GW.


And whiners are still whiners. They increased the size of the miniatures to give them more detail. And the new miniatures look fantastic. Why would you turn larger, more detailed, more dynamic miniatures into a negative thing?

Oh right. Because they want to make money. Unlike all the other game companies out there charitably donating their releases.

You've heard of supply and demand, right? Well for years now there has been tremendous demand for Blood Bowl and virtually no supply. The fact that this is being corrected is a reason for many of us to cheer.

If you have no demand for more Blood Bowl, don't worry about what they've done to the supply. The rest of us are happy.
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Nigel McNaughton
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If you're playing with someone on the new board then clearly they would have the new template along with it, so nothing forces you to have one as well. Stick with your old models if that's what you want to do.
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John Middleton
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xnachox wrote:

Yep, we all knew that GW was going to do something to make old players to empty their pockets once again. That´s why I was asking.
Aside of the scale creep of the miniatures, (I bet that the old minis look like dwarfs compared with the new ones)they have made the old templates useless. It just shows that GW is still GW.


They have increased the size of their entire fantasy range.


It isn't a scam. Just allows for more detail on new models while letting skinny parts like tails, spears, spikes, and whatever be more durable.


They have talked about why they went larger and why many figures are on 32mm bases now.

So all of that forced increasing the board size to avoid base overlap. And that required changing the pass template.

If you enjoyed the old game and got lots of play out of it, then I would bet that the new version would be a worthwhile purchase.


 
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Rauli Kettunen
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DegenerateElite wrote:
If you think about it this way.... a team is $35.00 and the dice are $12.50 a set.


Lol, they could charge $25 for a dice set and it'd still be pretty much irrelevant. Old version owners have the dice they need. Same goes for old base owners regarding teams. Basically it's paying a whole lot for 90% (at least) stuff you already have.

I own 3rd edition + Death Zone and 10 teams (and a choice selection of Star Players). Rebuying all that? What would that get me? Duplicates of stuff I already have. Screw that.

Quote:
Why would you turn larger, more detailed, more dynamic miniatures into a negative thing?


'Cos they made them look far too similar to each other? At least the Orc team shown. Telling players apart at a quick glance >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pointless extra details, the "pretty stuff".
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Clinton Rice
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Dam the Man wrote:

'Cos they made them look far too similar to each other? At least the Orc team shown. Telling players apart at a quick glance >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pointless extra details, the "pretty stuff".


Use the included base decals. Problem solved.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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That's just more work casuals have to put in in order to play the game. I say casuals since guessing that's the crowd this set is aimed for, new people, old guard have their old stuff. New people wanting to open the box and play right off the bat, nope, not going to happen (much easier in the old version, nothing to put together, roles were easy to tell apart with no markings).

Plus, having anything but green (unless you're going for full-on diorama style base stuff for everyone) on the base triggers me, looks bad on the pitch, markings, numbers, whatever, don't belong on the base.
 
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José Ibáñez
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Seriously guys I apologise if anyone have feel offended by my post, it is a personal view and you can agree or disagree.

However, I see that some people haven't seen my point. Let me explain. This year GW released Warhammer Quest. Which I bought in an instant even though I like the old one better. Why I bought it then? Because I saw a game with new mechanics which you might like or not but it adds something new.

Of all of specialists games, Blood Bowl IN MY OPINION! deserved a new release the least. The game has been kept alive by the fans (with no help or support from GW) and you have dozens of companies that offer the "classic" teams minis and even new races, fields, dices, etc. As the first poster said this version it's pretty much the living rulebook with very few tweaks. Blood Bowl is a favourite of mine and I am happy to see it again in the shops. In fact I wish they bring back Gothic, necromunda and Mordheim. But for me as a collector and owner of the old version it is hard to justify a purchase after hearing these facts.

As for the scale creep I have never said it was a scam.I do not agree that more detail is the only reason behind the change of size. I am perfectly fine with 28mm because AGAIN in my opinion, the old sculpts have more character than the new ones.

And remember guys, it's just a game so no hard feelings.
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Clinton Rice
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Well, I have already played the new version, and I can tell you that while you are not completely wrong about them being difficult to tell apart, it's not as hard as you might think.

For the orcs, you can easily tell blitzers apart with the topknot and raised leg. Blockers have far more armor than linemen. Throwers have the ball.

For me, the hardest to tell apart unpainted were the human blitzers and linemen. It was basically a matter of one clawed glove or two. But manageable.

Applying decals to bases is not that difficult or time-consuming for casuals. I can understand your concern that it doesn't fit the aesthetic you want on the pitch, but if you are that concerned about the color schemes of your bases, odds are you are painting your miniatures as well. If your miniatures are painted, then you should have no trouble differentiating between positions. If you can't tell your painted miniatures apart, you painted them wrong.

 
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Ron Price
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xnachox wrote:
Seriously guys I apologise if anyone have feel offended by my post, it is a personal view and you can agree or disagree.

However, I see that some people haven't seen my point. Let me explain. This year GW released Warhammer Quest. Which I bought in an instant even though I like the old one better. Why I bought it then? Because I saw a game with new mechanics which you might like or not but it adds something new.

Of all of specialists games, Blood Bowl IN MY OPINION! deserved a new release the least. The game has been kept alive by the fans (with no help or support from GW) and you have dozens of companies that offer the "classic" teams minis and even new races, fields, dices, etc. As the first poster said this version it's pretty much the living rulebook with very few tweaks. Blood Bowl is a favourite of mine and I am happy to see it again in the shops. In fact I wish they bring back Gothic, necromunda and Mordheim. But for me as a collector and owner of the old version it is hard to justify a purchase after hearing these facts.

As for the scale creep I have never said it was a scam.I do not agree that more detail is the only reason behind the change of size. I am perfectly fine with 28mm because AGAIN in my opinion, the old sculpts have more character than the new ones.

And remember guys, it's just a game so no hard feelings.


There's a Blood Bowl podcast called Skulls and Ones, and in a recent episode they interview the guys responsible for the new edition. Listen to it, and feel better that the product is indeed a labor of love. They want to keep the current fans happy and allow the new ones to join in.

There's no "make them buy it again agenda" anywhere that I can see. They're making sure to allow people to use their old stuff, and trying to make the new stuff good.

As far as a new release, I think that many of the specialist games deserve love--they've all got dedicated fans who've kept the games alive. I think BB was a good choice because they've got a pretty successful computer/console game that has made a lot of people familiar with the name. Whether they'll be the ones buying it or not remains to be seen.

But if you don't feel the need for the new version, don't buy it. The community seems delighted to have an influx of energy either way!
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Robert Kingery
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My thoughts with a little background first.

I have been playing BB since the figures were paper standies (yep 1st edition). When 2nd Edition was pushed in White Dwarf I fell in love with the miniatures, the pitch sealed the deal (damn that thing is still beautiful). After that several other editions have been released and guess what? I still picked up the new editions but for me 2nd Ed was the sweet spot because my son (7) and I could sit down with awesome painted teams, a beautifully painted pitch and just have fun. Playing with my boy reminded me of the game I fell in love with as a young lad.

Why buy all the other editions if your love is 2nd Ed is probably what you are thinking? Well in my view it's simple, if you support the latest/greatest release two things happen. 1) You get new releases of miniatures from GW as well as all of the other companies that make BB style teams. 2) You get a new batch of young bloods into the game which gives us old guys new players to play against.

In my book both of these are a win.

Yes I have already preordered this new version. I will end up painting up both teams even though I have several teams already painted up. My boy and I will play the new version and I will see what he thinks of it. In all of this we may just end up playing some new people and having some fun. In the end this is what gaming is about right? Having fun!
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matthew mclaughlin
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This particular set isn't worth it for me, because I have no interest in Orc or Human teams. I probably would have bought the set (imo it's a great price) for the pitch and components alone, but the pitch is team specific.

I'm hoping we get pitches/sets for the teams I play:

Chaos
Chaos Dwarfs
Goblins
Ogres

In any case, I think this set is a great deal for anyone interested in Orcs of Humans, or anyone just getting into the game. For me, it's a no-go right now.
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Clinton Rice
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locustofdeath wrote:
Chaos
Chaos Dwarfs
Goblins
Ogres


None of your teams are in season one, but if the game does well, I'm sure we will see a season two, and I bet Chaos at minimum will be in that wave, along with lizardmen and undead. So do your best to support the new edition to help ensure that there will be more forthcoming.
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Marcel van der pol
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Of all the specialst games, Blood Bowl is the best, most popular, most balanced, most fun to play and most supported game. Once Games Workshop decided to change their strategy and make Specialist Games again they were very likely to revisit Blood Bowl.

The current version of Blood Bowl is OLD. the miniatures are from the '90s and so is the rest of the content of the box. While the rules themselves have held up strongly for more than 20 years, compared to the quality of todays board games the content of the box is simply not of the same quality.

Next to this, a new version with modern components is likely to draw new players to the game; this is quite important as the influx of new players (for games workshop in general but applies to Blood Bowl as well) is quite low. This risks that the game will die out if players leave the scene due to other priorities.

Finally, Games Workshop is hoping for cross polination to their other games so that the "easy to get into" games will result in new players becoming interested in their main miniature games (Age of Sigmar, Warhammer 40k). Even if new players dont cross polinate to other games, the exposure to Games Workshop quality games is good advertisement.

From these perspectives the old Blood Bowl editions simply didn't do the job anymore.

I am definitely going to buy the new edition; i like what Games Workshop is doing with their Specialist Games. I own two copies of Space Hulk, one copy of Dread Fleet and am thinking about picking up Warhammer Quest as well. The new Blood Bowl edition is on my list as well.
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Teeka
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BathTubNZ wrote:
If you're playing with someone on the new board then clearly they would have the new template along with it, so nothing forces you to have one as well. Stick with your old models if that's what you want to do.

What about using the new expansion teams in the 3rd ed. game?
Would the bigger size of the bases/minis cause a problem?

I have a very limited budget for gaming. So while of course the new minis/boards/stuff look awesome, I can't get myself to buy a prettier version of something I really already own*.
Though if I could get some more teams just to expand my game (I own only the 3rd ed. base game), then that would really be great.


*(That's not "whining" by the way, but the harsh reality of trying to have a hobby on a low income.)
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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There's already overfill with Big Guys/Star Players on the old board, at least when knocked over (original square bases too), I for one am used to it.
 
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José Ibáñez
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I think people are missing the point of this thread. I haven't question the quality of the components, the commitment of the designers or the fun factor of Blood Bowl. I think too that Blood Bowl is the most rounded boxed game of GW. But right now, we can agree that the major difference between this version and the previous is aesthetics.

I see many people worried about the support to GW. As a person who has been left in the cold by GW many times (warhammer, gorkamorka, warhammer 40k,etc anyone?) I want to consider where I put my money. I wonder what this same people will think after purchasing the base game, supplements and several teams if GW changes its mind and re scale Blood Bowl in let's say 2 years.
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Ryan R
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xnachox wrote:


I see many people worried about the support to GW. As a person who has been left in the cold by GW many times (warhammer, gorkamorka, warhammer 40k,etc anyone?) I want to consider where I put my money. I wonder what this same people will think after purchasing the base game, supplements and several teams if GW changes its mind and re scale Blood Bowl in let's say 2 years.


Maybe. Maybe not. See you in 2 years.
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Clinton Rice
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Teeka wrote:

What about using the new expansion teams in the 3rd ed. game?
Would the bigger size of the bases/minis cause a problem?

I have a very limited budget for gaming. So while of course the new minis/boards/stuff look awesome, I can't get myself to buy a prettier version of something I really already own*.
Though if I could get some more teams just to expand my game (I own only the 3rd ed. base game), then that would really be great.


I wish I could say this is feasible, but it is likely to be problematic. Going from 28mm to 32mm, the bases have also grown proportionally and will overlap the squares on the old board. It wouldn't be much of a problem when the players are spread out but when they are all closing in to assist on a block and crammed in there, you are going to have problems. And if you want to play with big guys later on, it's just going to get worse.

Quote:
*(That's not "whining" by the way, but the harsh reality of trying to have a hobby on a low income.)


No. I understand budgetary concerns perfectly fine. I would not have accused you of whining. And I am the one who called out the previous poster. He was whining.

There will inevitably be people buying two copies of the game just to get more miniatures. Keep your eyes open and you may find an opportunity to buy a pitch from someone who doesn't need it.
 
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Clinton Rice
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xnachox wrote:
I wonder what this same people will think after purchasing the base game, supplements and several teams if GW changes its mind and re scale Blood Bowl in let's say 2 years.


I think this is the least likely scenario, by far. My bigger concern is that they won't support it actively enough to get out all of the teams, leaving some of my favorites abandoned. Or that we won't get releases of things that aren't strictly necessary but make the game more fun like cheerleader miniatures and trophy packs.

Considering the 20 years since the last edition, they aren't going to be scrambling to make this one obsolete. But abandonment is a valid fear. So let's support the game to make sure they support the game.
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Ron Price
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Well, as far as the larger minis go, if you're playing somebody with larger-based minis, they've probably got the new board.

Let things become a problem when they're a problem.

If they wanted to "force" players to buy things, GW could have screwed every old player by simply changing the team makeup of all the teams. If humans now need 1-4 "Enforcers", you have to buy them from GW, and they won't match the rest of your team, so you buy the whole kit. That was, to me, the worst possible thing they could have done, and the one thing that would have made me walk away from the game--I'm not replacing my 20-plus teams (most of which I still have to paint )! They're reissuing the game in its current, and to me, best, form, and I'm not sweating what's coming next, because it shows they're doing Blood Bowl right.
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