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Subject: High strategy, low luck rss

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Alonso Villanueva
Peru
Lima
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Hi guys,

I was wondering if you could help me find my next buy. My group and I like high strategy and low luck games (this usually doesn't exclude games with risk management). We prefer long span games, with a feeling of epicness. We have yet to try TI3, but we already have a copy.

Some of our favorites are:

- Through the Ages
- Terra Mystica
- Agricola with full draft
- Race for the galaxy (luck of the draw but you can manage the uncertainty)
- Dominant Species (crazy politics)
- Mage Knight

All recommendations are welcome.

Thanks!
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Aaron Gelb
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Antike II

It fits your bill, perfectly.

Epic feeling, strategic and tactical, very low luck. No dice, random cards, etc. As Euroey as a civ game can get without getting dry. Its got a lot of goodness but isn't a 3 hour game. 1.5-2 hrs probably depending on player count.

You may also enjoy Scythe.
 
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Joel Oakley
United States
Brandon
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The Gallerist
ZhanGuo
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L S
Germany
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Power Grid
 
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No Cat - No Cradle
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Toronto
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Nations
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Eric Mock
United States
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Alonso,

Hello. I am you. Just get used to the words "heavy euro". You will use them a lot to describe your taste in games. I kind of specialize in exactly the game type you are describing, so I'll chime in with my thoughts and open myself up to all the people who will reply to me and tell me how wrong I am.

Don't bother with Eclipse or Nations. Lautapelip (or whatever their name is) does a great job of taking epic games and tweaking the rules a bit to make them playable in a "normal" session. If you play TTA and have TI3, you will rather just play those. (Based upon your tastes as described.)

As a general rule, check out some Splotter titles. I know it's kind of niche, but they make great epic heavy euros. Food Chain Magnate and Indonesia are my 2 favorites of theirs, but almost any of their titles will scratch that itch.

Anything by Matagot would be a great choice. Cyclades, Kemet, and Inis are all great, great games. I don't know what it is about Matagot (maybe it's because they are French), but their games are somehow just a little different than what you are used to, and somehow very similar to each other in feel while being wildly different games.

There was a time when I would have shouted Chaos in the Old World at you at the top of my lungs, but I think maybe Blood Rage kind of took that spot in my heart nowadays. Don't get me wrong, Chaos in the Old World is a great game with entirely asymmetrical factions, but Blood Rage is just so much fun.

The Gallerist is a great choice (as has been mentioned). That game will draw you in and seduce you like few other games. After a game of Gallerist you kind of wander around for a few days thinking about it and how all the pieces are intimately connected to each other. In fact, you wouldn't go wrong with Lacerda's other games, especially Kanban, or (hopefully) Lisboa, which is just now on the Kickstarter.

Those are the easiest recommendations for you. I have a few more that I'll briefly mention as I think they are more subject to "taste" than the ones I've already mentioned. You can check them out yourself and form your own opinions..
Mare Nostrum, Fief, Here I Stand, Die Macher, City of Iron, City of Remnants, El Grande, Wallenstein (which is the same game as Shogun), Diplomacy, Belfort, Caverna, and Scythe.

I wish you luck in your search and in your gaming. I love the games you have listed as your favorites. (Except Agricola, see below.) I wish you could bring your group to my house. I'm easily the heaviest gamer in my groups. I wish I had a group of 4-6 who loved heavy euros like yours does.

P.S. - You kind of almost have to get the Shattered Empires expansion for TI3. The role cards in the base game are terrible (basically 2 people per round are forced to take a certain role because one of them give a victory point and the other lets you choose first so you can take the victory point next turn). Plus, there are a lot of other cool little things that you can throw into the game that really enhance an already incredible experience.

P.P.S. - Caverna is way better than Agricola. You get all the pleasure with none of the agony.

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Curt Carpenter
United States
Kirkland
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Le Havre
Food Chain Magnate
Luna
Lancaster
Madeira
Bruxelles 1893
(Age of) Steam
Wallenstein
Cavum
Shipyard
Village (with expansions)
Trajan
Vanuatu
Bora Bora
Lancaster (w/ expansions, or just Big Box)
Kanban
Tzolk'in
Panamax
Asgard
Marco Polo
Mombasa
Russian Railroads (w/ German Railroads)

Some of those are not quite as meaty as others, but I think they'd be up your alley (and heavier than RFTG, which you said you liked).

Skip TI3. Seriously.
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J J
Australia
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curtc wrote:
Skip TI3. Seriously.


Indeed. I quite enjoy TI3, but it is not low-luck. Dice for combat (with minimal ways to mitigate luck on the die rolls), randomly distributed map, random card draws all over the place (both for player use and also as game objectives)...
 
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Bill Eldard
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Burke
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+1 Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar and Antike/Antike II

Also, Puerto Rico

Taj Mahal

Blokus -- good filler game


 
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Dan Mansfield
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A Game of Thrones, 2nd Edition is all strategy. No dice in the combat phase, and it is definitely epic. Although it took us close to 4 hours to play a 6-player game, I can see it being played in less time once everyone in the group is into it.

But if you don't have thick skin and want to keep your friends, you might want to pass. devil
 
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Matt Brown
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Okemos
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+1 El Grande.
 
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Marc Hawkins
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Maybe you've heard of it, Chess? High strategy and no luck after determining who goes first.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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Sredni Vashtar wrote:

Well, no. It's a little strategy, and a lot of negotiation.

Sredni Vashtar wrote:
No dice in the combat phase

Simultaneous selection is just a different form of luck.
 
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Chris Gillmeister
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Napoleons Triumph is an excellent 2 player game that fits the categories. Though it is difficult and expensive.
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Alonso Villanueva
Peru
Lima
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Wow, I didn't expect so many inputs. I hadn't heard of many of the mentioned games, so thanks for bringing them to my attention.

One caveat that I didn't mention is the fact that I live in Perú (Obama and other world leaders are here right now for the APEC Leader's Summit wohoo) and, even though there are some specialized board game stores, many games don't arrive here. I can get those ones by paying high shipping costs, which may well be worth it. I have done it many times.

Now, to address some specific recommendations...

My group already owns Power Grid, Le Havre, Nations, GoT, Puerto Rico, El Grande and, as someone wittily pointed out, Chess. The extent to which we like this games varies across the group.

The Gallerist have been in my radar for some time, I love the artwork and the economics involved seem very interesting. However, the box is so big that it might have to wait for a family member's trip abroad to bring it here.

Thanks for mentioning Scythe, I looked into it and it looks awesome. I love balanced asymmetrical games so this one is entering the collection in January (shipping times).

How is Antike II compared to Mare Nostrum? I have played the latter and I liked it somewhat. I enjoyed the territorial struggle, but the winning conditions were anticlimactic. I also didn't like the dice, but at least they didn't go from 1 to 6, so the swings were not as big.

I think the runner ups are (based on availability and taste):

- Shipyard
- Trajan
- Food Chain Magnate (zero availability, 10000 taste)
- Kanban

There some games that you mentioned that I haven't checked out yet, so nothing is set on stone.

Thanks again!
 
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Alonso Villanueva
Peru
Lima
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Ukla the Mock wrote:
Alonso,

Hello. I am you. Just get used to the words "heavy euro". You will use them a lot to describe your taste in games. I kind of specialize in exactly the game type you are describing, so I'll chime in with my thoughts and open myself up to all the people who will reply to me and tell me how wrong I am.

Don't bother with Eclipse or Nations. Lautapelip (or whatever their name is) does a great job of taking epic games and tweaking the rules a bit to make them playable in a "normal" session. If you play TTA and have TI3, you will rather just play those. (Based upon your tastes as described.)

As a general rule, check out some Splotter titles. I know it's kind of niche, but they make great epic heavy euros. Food Chain Magnate and Indonesia are my 2 favorites of theirs, but almost any of their titles will scratch that itch.

Anything by Matagot would be a great choice. Cyclades, Kemet, and Inis are all great, great games. I don't know what it is about Matagot (maybe it's because they are French), but their games are somehow just a little different than what you are used to, and somehow very similar to each other in feel while being wildly different games.

There was a time when I would have shouted Chaos in the Old World at you at the top of my lungs, but I think maybe Blood Rage kind of took that spot in my heart nowadays. Don't get me wrong, Chaos in the Old World is a great game with entirely asymmetrical factions, but Blood Rage is just so much fun.

The Gallerist is a great choice (as has been mentioned). That game will draw you in and seduce you like few other games. After a game of Gallerist you kind of wander around for a few days thinking about it and how all the pieces are intimately connected to each other. In fact, you wouldn't go wrong with Lacerda's other games, especially Kanban, or (hopefully) Lisboa, which is just now on the Kickstarter.

Those are the easiest recommendations for you. I have a few more that I'll briefly mention as I think they are more subject to "taste" than the ones I've already mentioned. You can check them out yourself and form your own opinions..
Mare Nostrum, Fief, Here I Stand, Die Macher, City of Iron, City of Remnants, El Grande, Wallenstein (which is the same game as Shogun), Diplomacy, Belfort, Caverna, and Scythe.

I wish you luck in your search and in your gaming. I love the games you have listed as your favorites. (Except Agricola, see below.) I wish you could bring your group to my house. I'm easily the heaviest gamer in my groups. I wish I had a group of 4-6 who loved heavy euros like yours does.

P.S. - You kind of almost have to get the Shattered Empires expansion for TI3. The role cards in the base game are terrible (basically 2 people per round are forced to take a certain role because one of them give a victory point and the other lets you choose first so you can take the victory point next turn). Plus, there are a lot of other cool little things that you can throw into the game that really enhance an already incredible experience.

P.P.S. - Caverna is way better than Agricola. You get all the pleasure with none of the agony.



Hi Eric,

I didn't know that I was 2 persons hehe. Seriously though, thanks for the detailed response and specific recommendations.

In regards to Nations, you are completely right. I tried it and it is a good game, but it just feels too light after playing TTA so much. For the Splotter titles, I might get Food Chain Magnate but it depends on availability and shipping. I will look into Indonesia, I haven't heard of it before.

Other games you mentioned like The Gallerist (knew it) and Kanban (didn't know it) are on my list.

I have heard great things about Caverna, but I don't know if it is worth replacing Agricola when I can use that money to get something different. Besides I think I like the "agony" in Agricola and it was one of the first games I bought so I'm attached to it.

EDIT.. Forgot to quote.
 
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Morten K
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Not two players and not really relevant for the question you asked but since you're in Perú you should have a look at Tahuantinsuyu.
 
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I have a game you will like: chess!

Simple rules, quick set up, deep strategy, no luck.

Cant say it's fun though. But that's what you get with serious games.
 
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Alonso Villanueva
Peru
Lima
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-xXx- wrote:
I have a game you will like: chess!

Simple rules, quick set up, deep strategy, no luck.

Cant say it's fun though. But that's what you get with serious games.


Unfortunately, someone already made that joke. And, as a matter of fact, I do like chess.

Thanks for the tip.
 
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David Gibbs
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1830: Railways & Robber Barons, or some of the other 18xx series. Long, heavy strategy, very low luck/randomness (for 1830 and most of the series, the only randomness is seating position at the table).



 
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Mardaik wrote:
-xXx- wrote:
I have a game you will like: chess!

Simple rules, quick set up, deep strategy, no luck.

Cant say it's fun though. But that's what you get with serious games.


Unfortunately, someone already made that joke. And, as a matter of fact, I do like chess.

Thanks for the tip.


It's not a joke. You should take boardgames less seriously. Boardgames are meant to be fun and always involve some luck. Heavy stragegy + low luck doesn't sound like you want a boardgame after all.


 
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Timothy Young
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Ogden
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Quote:
Chess.

Ha ha ha.

Aren't I so clever. Excuse me a moment while I pat myself on the back and recover from my fit of laughter.



Seriously- he asked for recommendations for his group. I think it's safe to assume that since he used that word he needs games that play with more than two people. Not to mention that even if he hadn't responded to that suggestion, I'm pretty sure he was already aware of Chess and didn't post this thread because he wanted someone to tell him to play it with his group.
 
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Timothy Young
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-xXx- wrote:
Boardgames are meant to be fun and always involve some luck. Heavy stragegy + low luck doesn't sound like you want a boardgame after all.



Huh?
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J J
Australia
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-xXx- wrote:
Mardaik wrote:
-xXx- wrote:
I have a game you will like: chess!

Simple rules, quick set up, deep strategy, no luck.

Cant say it's fun though. But that's what you get with serious games.


Unfortunately, someone already made that joke. And, as a matter of fact, I do like chess.

Thanks for the tip.


It's not a joke. You should take boardgames less seriously. Boardgames are meant to be fun and always involve some luck. Heavy stragegy + low luck doesn't sound like you want a boardgame after all.




Yeah, no. Or are you going to declare all those abstracts as "not-boardgame"? How about all those heavy euros that deliberately minimise luck? Also "not-boardgame"?

Your opinion doesn't seem to bear much relation to reality. Also, keep the prescriptive presumption to yourself.
 
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mike heim
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These are NO LUCK games:

Diplomacy = wargame with no luck!

Any dexterity game like Jungle Speed or Bandu.

A puzzle game like Ricochet Robots.

Trump: The Game = a game with no...oh, nevermind.
 
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