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Subject: Is this game too difficult to win at? rss

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Arturo Ron
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I'm wondering if this game it too difficult to win at. I've played it half a dozen times and I've beaten it once or twice.

I'm finding it really hard to crawl out from under the weight of so many -1 and 0 value Robinson cards and I'm wondering if buying a second set to replace one or two 0 cards with one or two 1 value cards might make the game more playable.

Are you having the same issues I am and what do you think might be a good solution to this?

Cheers
 
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GodRob
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It's difficult at first but once you figure out a good strategy you'll regularly win and will probably want to make the game a little more difficult.

There are many good strategies here and I'm sure others will chime in with theirs if you want.
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Justin Case
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You didn't say what level you are playing, but one rewarding thing about this game is that you can improve with experience, and then make the game a little *more* challenging.

I personally don't think the game is "too" difficult at all -- once I got over the hump of learning to play and to plan my play, I found the game to be "just right", which is to say that I win enough not to feel that it's futile to try, but I lose enough to know that winning is by no means a foregone conclusion.

But even if you are playing at the lowest level, if you've already won a couple of games out of a half dozen, you're really doing quite well!

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Radosław Michalak
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There were many players, who had hard time because of one mistake:
When you lose life and decide to destroy cards, you do not spend additional life points, but destroy cards for already lost life. But they were paying additional life points.
So if you lose 3 HP in a fight, you can just destroy up to 3 normal cards (or 1 aging and 1 regular) without any additional cost.
Maybe you also make this mistake?
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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blueart1 wrote:
I'm wondering if this game it too difficult to win at. I've played it half a dozen times and I've beaten it once or twice.

I don't think I'm the right guy to advise you, because if I won more than that in my first six plays of a solo game, when I'm just learning the system, I'd be worried that the game was too easy.

The great thing for me about Friday is how much headroom it has. When you get too good at a level, you can always go to the next (or once you reach level 5, further reduce your starting life). The game remains eternally challenging, which in my case has led to triple digit plays.
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Russ Williams
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blueart1 wrote:
I'm wondering if this game it too difficult to win at. I've played it half a dozen times and I've beaten it once or twice.

Are you seriously expecting to win a majority of the time in your first few plays before you have any experience or strategy knowledge about the game?
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meggie lai
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Radziol wrote:
There were many players, who had hard time because of one mistake:
When you lose life and decide to destroy cards, you do not spend additional life points, but destroy cards for already lost life. But they were paying additional life points.
So if you lose 3 HP in a fight, you can just destroy up to 3 normal cards (or 1 aging and 1 regular) without any additional cost.
Maybe you also make this mistake?


Wait! What?! I have been making that mistake. I already played for more than dozen times and struggle to even make it to the pirates. cry I figure it's the time to check out strategies here.

Well, thank you for the reminder. I gotta go back and try again.
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kos blaat
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meggielai wrote:
Radziol wrote:
There were many players, who had hard time because of one mistake:
When you lose life and decide to destroy cards, you do not spend additional life points, but destroy cards for already lost life. But they were paying additional life points.
So if you lose 3 HP in a fight, you can just destroy up to 3 normal cards (or 1 aging and 1 regular) without any additional cost.
Maybe you also make this mistake?


Wait! What?! I have been making that mistake. I already played for more than dozen times and struggle to even make it to the pirates. cry I figure it's the time to check out strategies here.

Well, thank you for the reminder. I gotta go back and try again.


Wait! What? Say I need to draw 3 cards to match 14 threat. So I draw 3 cards, but they are only 1 fighting value. I have to "pay" 13 points, say my 3 cards are 1 each, I come up short 10 points. Do I have to pay the remainder in life chits (=pay with 10 wooden grain thingies) or not? Meaning does the rest get discarded?
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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kosterix wrote:
meggielai wrote:
Radziol wrote:
There were many players, who had hard time because of one mistake:
When you lose life and decide to destroy cards, you do not spend additional life points, but destroy cards for already lost life. But they were paying additional life points.
So if you lose 3 HP in a fight, you can just destroy up to 3 normal cards (or 1 aging and 1 regular) without any additional cost.
Maybe you also make this mistake?


Wait! What?! I have been making that mistake. I already played for more than dozen times and struggle to even make it to the pirates. cry I figure it's the time to check out strategies here.

Well, thank you for the reminder. I gotta go back and try again.


Wait! What? Say I need to draw 3 cards to match 14 threat. So I draw 3 cards, but they are only 1 fighting value. I have to "pay" 13 points, say my 3 cards are 1 each, I come up short 10 points. Do I have to pay the remainder in life chits (=pay with 10 wooden grain thingies) or not? Meaning does the rest get discarded?

In your example your total score is 3, so you have to pay 11 life (14 - 3 = 11, not 10). Your only alternative is to pay life to draw more cards before ending the fight in hopes of increasing your score.

That's really not what was being discussed in the comments you quoted. If you were to pay those 11 lives, you could destroy all 3 of the cards in your display. (You'd actually be able to destroy more if there were more in your display; 11 points worth at 2 per aging card and 1 per non-aging card.)


[edit] If you're having trouble with the rules, I suggest you'd get more help if you started a new thread in the Rules folder, with a title that gives an idea what the question is about. This thread is in General and had already run its course. If I hadn't spotted it on the front page I'd have never seen your question, and I doubt many others will either.
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kos blaat
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meggielai wrote:
Radziol wrote:
There were many players, who had hard time because of one mistake:
When you lose life and decide to destroy cards, you do not spend additional life points, but destroy cards for already lost life. But they were paying additional life points.
So if you lose 3 HP in a fight, you can just destroy up to 3 normal cards (or 1 aging and 1 regular) without any additional cost.
Maybe you also make this mistake?


Wait! What?! I have been making that mistake. I already played for more than dozen times and struggle to even make it to the pirates. cry I figure it's the time to check out strategies here.

Well, thank you for the reminder. I gotta go back and try again.


I highly doubt this 'When you lose life and decide to destroy cards, you do not spend additional life points, but destroy cards for already lost life. '.

It all depends on what you mean by additional, but if you mean that 'in place of moving 3 wooden chits back to the reserve, replace this by moving 3 cards to the reserve' you assume some kind of equivalence between a card and a life point, in some abstract sense.

The dutch version did not indicate such a thing. Whenever in doubt, I look for the original. See http://www.2f-spiele.de/spiele/pdf/fr-regel_de_07.pdf

Please bear with me the few German fragments:

- "Wenn du den Kampf als verloren aufgibst [...], verliert Robinson Lebenspunkte. Du musst so viele Lebenspunkte an die Reserve abgeben, wie dir noch Kampfpunkte fehlen, um die Gefahr zu besiegen (Differenz zwischen dem Gefahrenwert und deinen erreichten Kampfpunkten). "

'verliert R. lebenspunkte' reads literally your life points are reduced. When you claim that you can use cards as life points, his life points aren't reduced.
'Lebenspunkte abgeben' also clearly implies the act of moving actual life points away from you the player. 'an die Reserve' means you don't have these available to you anymore, the Reserve is (in my case) back to the box.

- the figure at p.3 and p.4 clearly indicates that the wooden chit is a life point.

In short, life points ARE them physical wooden green grain-like thingies, and nothing else.

I suspect that people who lose too often, just don't play smartly enough. Not paying life points when you should, is your own right to choose, but to me it is just cheating.
 
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Russ Williams
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kosterix wrote:
I highly doubt this 'When you lose life and decide to destroy cards, you do not spend additional life points, but destroy cards for already lost life. '.

The dutch version did not indicate such a thing. Whenever in doubt, I look for the original. See http://www.2f-spiele.de/spiele/pdf/fr-regel_de_07.pdf


That is NOT how the original german rules read, and also not how the dutch translation reads.
- "Wenn du den Kampf als verloren aufgibst [...], verliert Robinson Lebenspunkte. Du musst so viele Lebenspunkte an die Reserve abgeben, wie dir noch Kampfpunkte fehlen, um die Gefahr zu besiegen (Differenz zwischen dem Gefahrenwert und deinen erreichten Kampfpunkten). "

'verliert R. lebenspunkte' reads literally your life points are reduced. When you claim that you can use cards as life points, his life points aren't reduced.
'Lebenspunkte abgeben' also clearly implies the act of moving actual life points away from you the player.

- the figure at p.3 and p.4 clearly indicates that the wooden chit is a life point.

In short, life points ARE them physical wooden green grain-like thingies, and nothing else.

I suspect that people who lose too often, just don't play smartly enough. Not paying life points when you should, is your own right to choose, but to me it is just cheating.

What do you think this next part means?

the German rules right after the part you quoted wrote:
Für diese abgegebenen Lebenspunkte darfst du aufgedeckte Kampfkarten, die dir nicht helfen, zerstören und aus dem Spiel nehmen. Dabei gilt: Für 1 Lebenspunkt kannst du eine unliebsame Robinson- oder Erfahrungskarte zerstören, für 2 Lebenspunkte eine Tollpatschkarte!


Similarly in the English rules:
the English rules wrote:
For the life points you pay in this manner you can destroy played fighting cards and remove them from the game. You need one life point for one of the starting or knowledge cards . To destroy an aging card, you need two life points

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kos blaat
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Yes, agreed, the German and English parts are both equally confusing.

But consider this: the "in this manner" is not present in the German version. The German version instead says "Fur diese abgegebenen Lebenspunkte", which would refer to the previous sentence, specifically "Lebenspunkte an die Reserve abgeben", and not to something like exchange cards or such, but rather, actually paying with wooden life tokens.

In other words:

"For the life points you pay in this manner you can destroy played fighting cards and remove them from the game. You need one life point for one of the starting or knowledge cards . To destroy an aging card, you need two life points"

you interpret this "For" as "Instead of".

I interpret this "For" as "As compensation for".

Would be interested in what the creator (Friedemann Friese) actually intended. Can anyone contact him/her?

My guess qua intended play is:
Per 2 life points that you paid by removing an aging card instead is not intended: there would be not enough cases in which you lose life points, namely only when you decide to draw extra cards. In that case you would almost always draw extra cards like mad and in that way almost always win each challenge.

I looked at 2 reviews: solo (on yt) and rahdo, both pay with life tokens when they lose. You wouldn't, which implies they are showing incorrect play. Could be that you are correct, though.


Until the creator speaks, let's just agree to disagree then...

And it's a pity the manual does not include a picture that explicitly shows how it should be played.
 
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Russ Williams
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kosterix wrote:
In other words:

"For the life points you pay in this manner you can destroy played fighting cards and remove them from the game. You need one life point for one of the starting or knowledge cards . To destroy an aging card, you need two life points"

you interpret this "For" as "Instead of".

I interpret this "For" as "As compensation for".

...

I looked at 2 reviews: solo (on yt) and rahdo, both pay with life tokens when they lose. You wouldn't, which implies they are showing incorrect play. Could be that you are correct, though.

What? I never said that I wouldn't pay life for losing a fight! I'm having trouble understanding what you mean, but it sounds like you're really misunderstanding how people (including me) are saying it works.

If you lose the fight, then yes, you pay the difference (hazard strength minus your strength) in life points. (And that is regardless of whether you paid any life to draw extra cards or not.)

And whatever that difference was, you can destroy that many cards. You do not have to pay more life to destroy cards. (Indeed after the fight is over, you do not even have the option to pay more life to destroy cards.)

E.g. if you lose a fight by 2 points, you can destroy 2 of your played cards. (Or 1 aging card, since they cost double to destroy).

Do you agree with that? If so, I think we're all on the same page and just suffering from miscommunication.
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Mark James Schryver
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Folks, this question has long since been settled (and frankly, I never found it to be in any way confusing in the first place).

The creator and/or publisher has weighed in. I'd suggest searching the Rules forum. (Or perhaps some kind soul will do it for you, and post a link here.)
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kos blaat
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If you know can you give the answer then?

I have no idea how to search for such a thing. What keyword to use?
 
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Radosław Michalak
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On game's page go to Forums, Rules, sort by Hot and I have it in 30s.
Paying to destroy?
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