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Subject: Mons Graupius aftermath rss

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Colin Taylor
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Hi Tom,

I apologize for asking so many questions, but I thought I would post anything that came up in my first play through, just in case it helps others in the future.

I triggered Mons Graupius in the Damnoni Tribal Space, despite Calgacus being in Caledonii (rolled a 6, +6 Resistance in Damnoni, +2 for Calgacus).

I ended up winning the battle, but I have 2 questions:

1. Does Calgacus count as being in the Battle, even if not in the space that triggered it? I ask, as I had Agricola there, so would retain initiative if Calgacus would be in Caledonii, but not if he was in Damnoni. I would guess he stays in Caledonii, but wasn't sure if Mons Graupius was different (seeing as he dies if the Battle was lost, even if he wasn't in the space that triggered it).

2. Once the Battle is over, it says to remove all red Tribes to Unfriendly. Is this the only thing to do in the Aftermath of the battle? Or do I still go through the normal End of Battle steps, just putting all Red Tribes into Unfriendly, instead of Step 4? Or do the Tribes in the Battle space go to the Dead Pool, and the other Red Tribes on the board to Unfriendly?

Thanks,

Colin
 
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Tom Russell
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ColintheFlea wrote:
Hi Tom,

I apologize for asking so many questions, but I thought I would post anything that came up in my first play through, just in case it helps others in the future.

I triggered Mons Graupius in the Damnoni Tribal Space, despite Calgacus being in Caledonii (rolled a 6, +6 Resistance in Damnoni, +2 for Calgacus).

I ended up winning the battle,


Congratulations!

Quote:
but I have 2 questions:

1. Does Calgacus count as being in the Battle, even if not in the space that triggered it? I ask, as I had Agricola there, so would retain initiative if Calgacus would be in Caledonii, but not if he was in Damnoni. I would guess he stays in Caledonii, but wasn't sure if Mons Graupius was different (seeing as he dies if the Battle was lost, even if he wasn't in the space that triggered it).


Yes, Calgacus is always at Mons Graupius since that's the only way he is defeated.

Quote:
2. Once the Battle is over, it says to remove all red Tribes to Unfriendly. Is this the only thing to do in the Aftermath of the battle? Or do I still go through the normal End of Battle steps, just putting all Red Tribes into Unfriendly, instead of Step 4? Or do the Tribes in the Battle space go to the Dead Pool, and the other Red Tribes on the board to Unfriendly?


You still resolve all the normal steps, the only difference is that all the Red units go right into the Unfriendly Cup (none of them go into the Dead Pool, other than Calgacus).
 
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Colin Taylor
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OK, then I think it should be clarified that Calgacus moves to where the Battle is taking place. All the rules say is that an * result when Calgacus is on the board triggers Mons Graupius. It doesn't say he counts as being there, for Initiative.

This also gives me a follow up. For initiative, does he now count as neing in the box? Even though he wasn't when the Battle was triggered, i.e. does it mean the Romans never get Initiative at Mons Graupius? I didn't play it that way.

Also, I must be doing something wrong, as I won the Battle fairly easily. I started with 3 3-Aquila Legions, + 3 2/4 Tan Auxillaries. I lost 2 Auxillaries and 1 Legion.

Colin
 
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Tom Russell
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ColintheFlea wrote:
Also, I must be doing something wrong, as I won the Battle fairly easily. I started with 3 3-Aquila Legions, + 3 2/4 Tan Auxillaries. I lost 2 Auxillaries and 1 Legion.
Colin


Those are pretty minimal losses considering you've got 26 enemy steps to beat (as each enemy battle unit must take two losses to be eliminated in Mons Graupius). You may have had some luck die rolls?
 
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Colin Taylor
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I'm I doing it wrong?

To Attack, I roll and add my units Attack value, and compare to the Defense value of the enemy unit, right?

To Defend, I roll and add my defense value, and compare to the Attack value of any adjacent enemy, right?

If that is correct, then I've been doing it right. If you knock out one enemy unit, by attacking it twice, the two adjacent units are pretty much immune from damage, as each only faces one enemy. This is especially the 3 aquila Romans, who are untouchable if only adjacent to one enemy.

I also question the rule regarding an empty Hostile Cup. It says it's unlikely, but I triggered it 4 times. After I removed the Red Tribes, I was left with very few tribes on the board. At the end of Turn 5, I added 4 chits to the Hostile Cup, but needed to add 6 Tribes. So, I added two more. But then my first action was a Battle, and after it, my turn was over. 4VPs, plus Settlements, elite Romans and empty regions meant it was easy to progress. And having 3+ Settlements in Tan/Green/Blue meant tribes got removed during Deescalation. I did this 3 more times, only needing to buy a couple of VPs on Turn 8 to win (I did lose 5 VPs due to Tribes). Maybe that was an unusual case, but I emptied the Hostile Cup 4 times in 4 turns.

Thanks,

Colin
 
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Tom Russell
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ColintheFlea wrote:
I'm I doing it wrong?

To Attack, I roll and add my units Attack value, and compare to the Defense value of the enemy unit, right?

To Defend, I roll and add my defense value, and compare to the Attack value of any adjacent enemy, right?


Right and right.

Quote:
If that is correct, then I've been doing it right. If you knock out one enemy unit, by attacking it twice, the two adjacent units are pretty much immune from damage, as each only faces one enemy. This is especially the 3 aquila Romans, who are untouchable if only adjacent to one enemy.

I also question the rule regarding an empty Hostile Cup. It says it's unlikely, but I triggered it 4 times.


It doesn't happen all that often, but it's also going to depend on what actions you took, and when; as I think I mentioned on another thread, there's an exploit involving Peacekeeping that makes it more likely for the Hostile Cup to be emptied.

It could just be sound strategy and/or superb luck. Certainly it's not common for someone to win their first game, or to win it easily, but it's certainly in the realm of possibility.

Sorry you didn't enjoy the game, sir. Thank you for taking a chance on it.
 
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Colin Taylor
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tomrussell wrote:
ColintheFlea wrote:
I'm I doing it wrong?

To Attack, I roll and add my units Attack value, and compare to the Defense value of the enemy unit, right?

To Defend, I roll and add my defense value, and compare to the Attack value of any adjacent enemy, right?


Right and right.


Then if one adjacent enemy is Eliminated next to a 3 Aquila Legion, it can't be Eliminated itself, as the 6 defense is too high for any single enemy unit to breach. And when it Attacks, 3 + Roll is pretty good odds for knocking the enemy out. Put 2 next to each other, and chances are, the shared enemy will be gone, leaving both to survive. Rinse and repeat, and you win the Battle comfortably. In Mons Graupius, I did fail to kill an enemy one time, and the Legion was Eliminated in response, but that was the only time a Roman unit died.

tomrussell wrote:
Quote:
If that is correct, then I've been doing it right. If you knock out one enemy unit, by attacking it twice, the two adjacent units are pretty much immune from damage, as each only faces one enemy. This is especially the 3 aquila Romans, who are untouchable if only adjacent to one enemy.

I also question the rule regarding an empty Hostile Cup. It says it's unlikely, but I triggered it 4 times.


It doesn't happen all that often, but it's also going to depend on what actions you took, and when; as I think I mentioned on another thread, there's an exploit involving Peacekeeping that makes it more likely for the Hostile Cup to be emptied.

It could just be sound strategy and/or superb luck. Certainly it's not common for someone to win their first game, or to win it easily, but it's certainly in the realm of possibility.

Sorry you didn't enjoy the game, sir. Thank you for taking a chance on it.


Since Calgacus arrived on either Turn 3 or 4, I wasn't doing much Peacekeeping prior to Mons Graupius. For large parts of the game, there were minimal numbers of chits in anything but Unfriendly. I should have kept better track of my Turns, as I get the feeling I must have misunderstood some rule. But to be honest, I can't think what it must have been. I didn't double-improve a Garrison in one turn. I didn't get the Battles wrong. I don't think I did the placing of Hostile units wrong.

I'll give it another go some time.

Thanks,

Colin
 
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Tom Russell
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ColintheFlea wrote:
tomrussell wrote:
ColintheFlea wrote:
I'm I doing it wrong?

To Attack, I roll and add my units Attack value, and compare to the Defense value of the enemy unit, right?

To Defend, I roll and add my defense value, and compare to the Attack value of any adjacent enemy, right?


Right and right.


Then if one adjacent enemy is Eliminated next to a 3 Aquila Legion, it can't be Eliminated itself, as the 6 defense is too high for any single enemy unit to breach. And when it Attacks, 3 + Roll is pretty good odds for knocking the enemy out. Put 2 next to each other, and chances are, the shared enemy will be gone, leaving both to survive.


I mean, yes, that's true, and that's intentional. But say you have an enemy with a defense factor of "6"; 3 + roll you're going to need to roll a 4 or better. There's a 62.5% chance you'll do that, and a 37.5% chance you won't (though if I'm the one rolling the die, the chances of it being flubbed increase). The chances of scoring two successes in a row against an enemy unit with a Defense Factor of "6" are at about 39%. Those aren't bad odds, necessarily, but they're far from being a sure thing you can reliably "rinse and repeat".

Quote:
In Mons Graupius, I did fail to kill an enemy one time, and the Legion was Eliminated in response, but that was the only time a Roman unit died.


For you to only flub one roll out of 30+ (depending on how many natural "8" results were rolled) is pretty long odds. It's certainly possible, it's just statistically unlikely. The chances of rolling twice against each enemy unit with just the 3-aquila Legionaries, that is, with the most favorable odds, and never missing are a fairly astronomical 0.04%. So, the chances of missing only one roll are slightly more likely than that, but not by much. Again, it's certainly possible - after all, there is still a 0.04% chance of never missing - but it's just not the most probable or expected event. Which I guess is why it's so much fun to roll the dice.

I'm not saying that's the only reason why things were wonky for you - it could just be it's not a game that clicks with you, too - but a string of perfect rolls like that would certainly skew the results and the feel of the game.

Quote:
I'll give it another go some time.


Thanks. I hope you enjoy it more the next time, and that you're not quite so lucky on the battlefield.
 
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Colin Taylor
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Sorry, when I say rinse and repeat, I was referring to a normal Battle, rather than Mons Graupius. So, I have 2 chances to knock out a single enemy, and if I do, my 2 units adjacent to it are pretty much immune from elimination.

Also, I did most of my Battling with Agricola, so would have the Tactical Advantage. With that, I would target the lower defense unit, and worry about the better ones later, as there was no real advantage to target the better one. The only thing I can think of, was that I didn't have Initiative in Mons Graupius, IF Calgacus counts as being in the Tribal Box, despite not being there on the map, i.e. he counted as being in Damnoni, even though he was in Caledonii at the time Mons Graupius was triggered. That would have meant I set up and Attacked second, which would have made a difference.

I guess my question is, do the Romans ALWAYS fight Mons Graupius without Initiative? Because no matter where Calgacus is when you trigger Mons Graupius, he essentially moves to the space the Romans are in, and prevents Agricola taking Initiative. Is that correct?

Thanks,

Colin
 
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