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Subject: Advantage in acting first? rss

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eryn roston
United States
San Diego
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Let me preface by saying I haven't played an actual game yet. just read the rules and set up a few solo practice rounds. It seems like the player who goes first in the game has a significant advantage...especially in a 2-player game...since they can sink a ship or two right off the bat, and the other player isn't given an oportunity to fire back (at least with those sunken ships).

any experienced players find this to be the case?

-E
 
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Ryan Hackel
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Yes, this has been my experience through several games, from 2-player up through 4 player.

With multiple players, the issue can be resolved through group dynamics. An aggresive opening salvo will make you an immediate threat and tempting target, and too many weak enemies means too many weak future allies. I've found it best to play a cautious opening, spread my damage out among different fleets, and try not to look like the bad guy until it's too late to stop me. Although a thorough pummeling will be a setback for any non-starting player, a wise player can still overcome it.

With 2 players, yes it does suck to be on the receiving end of the first attack, creating a opening hurdle that's difficult to overcome. I'm looking for ways to remedy this, and I'd also be interested in any ideas that others have applied with success. The one upshot I see to first player advantage is that it's a great way to handicap a veteran up against a rookie.
 
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eryn roston
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I was thinking of something like a "phased deployment" of the first players fleet.

So maybe the first player can only deploy 15 points of his fleet to start with and than at the end of his turn he deploys the rest.


either that or the starting player starts off with less action cards (but still draws to seven at the end of his turn.

In a multi-player game you could scale this so that the first player gets 3 action cards to start, the second player 4, the third player 5 etc etc.

-E
 
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AMOS BURKE
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WALSALL
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hi ,did't like the way the game started ,so do you remember "naval war"
the fore runner to this.

you start by playing any red cards first , so we start with a round of;
1 reorganize
2 prepare
3 NO ATTACK CARDS CAN BE PLAYED
4 discard
5 draw

this gives you a chance to get some kinder of defence up..

but like you idea of slow deployment.
gona try deploying one ship card card each turn.....? we'll see

Amos
 
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AMOS BURKE
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Slow deplyment - - Wow it works

We let players play one of their ship card at the start of their turn.
It makes the game feel more like a naval battle,you don't gat all your fleet there at the same time but it has to build up.

Do you send the aircraft carrier first ,(risky but you get air attacks)or get a sub lurking about for a target.

If feels like the a single ship contact happens ,then get the rest of the fleet there,(as i think it would have happend).
The player who goes first has no targets ,but with only meeteing one ship at the start it has a chance to survive.

Rule we came up with
1 enemy fleet play one ship card per turn
2 enemy fleets play two ship cards per turn
and so on

Give it a go and let me know..
Amos

 
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Jose Angel Garcia Gomez
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I donĀ“t like the way the game starts too. Sometimes the first turn spoils the whole of the battle. The "scalating conflict" solution -not deploying all your ships at the beguinning- seems appropiated only for some kind of battles. In games for 2 players (the only ones I have played), I am going to try this approach: player winning the iniciative acts as usual, but the "receiving" player has the option to discard and draw up to 7 cards, before the deployment of his opponet. This way he can make up a good defense strategy, or a good answering fire next turn, as he wishes. This would represent one offensive side, which starts the fire, and a defensive, which has some time to prepare a suitable plan, and dispose its fleet accordingly. I think this is more realistic. What are your 2 cents?
 
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Sylvain Dietrich
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I played a 2-players game yesterday and we were also thinking the first player had a huge advantage over the 2nd player (me in this case).
Fortunately I had the luck to have drawn a very defensive set of cards so I was able to minimize the first round damages. But having played almost all my cards in defense, my own 1st round was nothing more than just replenishing my hand, so the advantage for 1st player was carried over on the second round.

I was thinking of other solutions. More experienced players, please give let me know what you think of these.
- Allowing the 2nd player to have a short turn, only consisting of preparation, discard and drawing phases. That will gives him/her better chances to overcome the first attack, defending with cards both from his preparatoin and his hand.

and/or

- only allowing first player to shoot with his first line on first round. He still can choose to have an agressive opening, but in this case leaves place for a devastating counter-atack...

 
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