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Pax Renaissance» Forums » Sessions

Subject: Too many Campaigns, Not enough Bishops rss

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Rob Stevenson
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I settled in to play my first game this afternoon, confident that I had a handle on the rules, but aware from Pax Porfiriana that I wouldn't know that until I actually tried. In the absence of solo rules, I would be playing two handed and randomly selected Couer and Fugger.

As it transpired, I made several substantial errors in play*, chiefly:

1) Moving surviving attackers following a campaign
2) Not paying attackers during a campaign
3) Mistakenly starting Mamluk on its Republic side

I do now feel like I now a have a grasp on the game mechanisms, although my mistakes altered the rules to such an extent that I still can't say that I have seen exactly how it will properly work in practice. Even accounting for that, I tremendously enjoyed how the game captures the turbulent history of the period and I'm confident that will still be the case when following the rules.

Following an early Jihad there, Hungary was the scene of bitter fighting as Fugger and Couer waged a series of proxy wars for control of the Black Sea trade. Fugger took a substantial lead in Islamic prestige and threatened an early Holy victory, so Couer was forced to buy the first comet and activated Globalisation instead. Only a single Islamic bishop ever entered play, and Couer sent it to Hungary immediately before campaigning there in order to prevent Islamic supremacy. Fugger activated Holy victory but couldn't afford to purchase another bishop in time. Instead Couer sent English knights campaigning into France and the resulting concession he placed was enough to claim a Globalisation victory.

* My first child was born last week, so I put the errors down to my all new exhausted dad-brain.


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Roel van der Hoorn
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rosie_187 wrote:
Only a single Islamic bishop ever entered play, and Couer sent it to Hungary immediately before campaigning there in order to prevent Islamic supremacy.

This, I don't understand. For a religion to be supreme, it doesn't matter where the bishop is. As long as the total number of bishops of that color is greater than the other 2 colors combined.
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Robert Crawford
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Congratulations!!
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Rich James
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RvdH83 wrote:
rosie_187 wrote:
Only a single Islamic bishop ever entered play, and Couer sent it to Hungary immediately before campaigning there in order to prevent Islamic supremacy.

This, I don't understand. For a religion to be supreme, it doesn't matter where the bishop is. As long as the total number of bishops of that color is greater than the other 2 colors combined.

I'm not sure, but he seems to be saying the bishop was killed during the campaign. If so, that was an error. Bishops can't be killed in battle or via regime change.
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Roel van der Hoorn
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arjisme wrote:
RvdH83 wrote:
rosie_187 wrote:
Only a single Islamic bishop ever entered play, and Couer sent it to Hungary immediately before campaigning there in order to prevent Islamic supremacy.

This, I don't understand. For a religion to be supreme, it doesn't matter where the bishop is. As long as the total number of bishops of that color is greater than the other 2 colors combined.

I'm not sure, but he seems to be saying the bishop was killed during the campaign. If so, that was an error. Bishops can't be killed in battle or via regime change.

Ah, no, they can't, but I figured it out now. If an empire becomes a vassal, then a bishop on the vassal card is discarded. So if Hungary was defeated in the campaign, it becomes a vassal and the black bishop is gone. That's actually a nice tactic.

Another way to get rid of a bishop is to move it to one of your own cards with ops, and then for your second action sell the card it is on.
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Rich James
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RvdH83 wrote:
Ah, no, they can't, but I figured it out now. If an empire becomes a vassal, then a bishop on the vassal card is discarded. So if Hungary was defeated in the campaign, it becomes a vassal and the black bishop is gone. That's actually a nice tactic.

Actually, no the bishop is not discarded in that case. Look at Regime change in the glossary under the bullet for Opponent's Empire. It says you discard Queens and Vassals when claiming an opponent's empire, but retain all other tokens and it specifically lists serfs and bishops as examples.

Quote:
Another way to get rid of a bishop is to move it to one of your own cards with ops, and then for your second action sell the card it is on.

Yes, that's a nice tactic!
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Roel van der Hoorn
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arjisme wrote:
RvdH83 wrote:
Ah, no, they can't, but I figured it out now. If an empire becomes a vassal, then a bishop on the vassal card is discarded. So if Hungary was defeated in the campaign, it becomes a vassal and the black bishop is gone. That's actually a nice tactic.

Actually, no the bishop is not discarded in that case. Look at Regime change in the glossary under the bullet for Opponent's Empire. It says you discard Queens and Vassals when claiming an opponent's empire, but retain all other tokens and it specifically lists serfs and bishops as examples.

Yes, the bishop is discarded. A Campaign works differently, because the defeated empire becomes a vassal. See F9. Campaign (emphasis mine):
Quote:
* Claiming Vassals. Place the defeated Empire on its King side below the victorious King Card in your Tableau, to show his vassalage to your King (now called a Suzerain). Discard all Bishop Tokens, Queens, and Vassals of the defeated Empire. All Repressed Tokens remain repressed on the Vassal, unless you choose to Emancipate them in the Regime Change (see glossary).
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Rich James
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Ah, yes. I didn't consider that it was becoming a vassal. Thanks for the correction.
 
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Rob Stevenson
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Yes, it was specifically the fact that it was a campaign that made Hungary a vassal that eliminated the troublesome bishop.
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