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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: HYDRA/SHIELD teams rss

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Craig Rios
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I know the official rule as of now is that anytime a card references HYDRA/SHIELD they can be interchangeable and synonymous for gameplay purposes, except when you are actually counting different teams you have (like for Captain Britain's card for example), but I was wondering if that will remain the rule with the more HYDRA cards we get?

It might be too early to tell, but I assume that rule will change at some point.
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Adam Steele
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Huh? No, that's not what the rule is. They are not interchangeable. That's why Zombie Madame Hydra specifies both. I personally house-rule they are interchangeable for Patriot, because he's totally broken otherwise (they just officially gave up on Villains). Officially though, they are different. If your HQ/Lair consists of Steve Rogers & Green Goblin, you're going to have to choose which side you really want to use when starting the game.
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Jerome Nowak

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Organous wrote:
Huh? No, that's not what the rule is. They are not interchangeable. That's why Zombie Madame Hydra specifies both. I personally house-rule they are interchangeable for Patriot, because he's totally broken otherwise (they just officially gave up on Villains). Officially though, they are different. If your HQ/Lair consists of Steve Rogers & Green Goblin, you're going to have to choose which side you really want to use when starting the game.


They officially gave up on Villains?
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Jason Walker
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That is the rule in the Fear Itself rules sheet, for people playing without the Villains base set. It's there because of effects that reference the team as if it were in your starting deck. I'm not sure if the rule is referenced anywhere else, because most other cards that would care (Old Man Logan, Zombie Madame Hydra) explicitly mention both.
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Justin H

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TravelSized wrote:
That is the rule in the Fear Itself rules sheet, for people playing without the Villains base set. It's there because of effects that reference the team as if it were in your starting deck. I'm not sure if the rule is referenced anywhere else, because most other cards that would care (Old Man Logan, Zombie Madame Hydra) explicitly mention both.


Yup, that is the rule if you don't own the Villain set just so that you can make Fear Itself work with the heroic Core Set. If you do own both, I don't think that it's encouraged to make them interchangeable though. When it comes down to it, I think it's intended to make them two separate groups, however you can for sure house rule it however you want. For example, we house rule that anything that refers to bindings just refer to wounds to make it easier when combining the sets. We know the rule books says they're not, but it's just a hassle otherwise. This house rule is not to make the game easier, but to make playing it easier.
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Quote:
... if that will remain the rule with the more HYDRA cards we get?


So far, the one HYDRA deck since Fear Itself referenced both HYDRA and S.H.I.E.L.D. in-text. That's Bob, Agent of Hydra. (Before then, there's Green Goblin, Ultron, Skadi who are only about HYDRA.)

Old Man Logan does as well.

However, Patriot (Avengers) references only S.H.I.E.L.D. Also, S.H.I.E.L.D. cards since then have not done this. Elsa Bloodstone, Agent X-13, and Steve Rogers, Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. all reference S.H.I.E.L.D. only. Notably, these are all after the addition of Old Man Logan.

Therefore, it's been mixed. It may be treated as a special HYRDA feature that HYDRA will use S.H.I.E.L.D. cards for triggers as well but not the other way around. This does seem a thematic solution to the practical problem of the de facto scuttling of the Villains line.
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Justin H

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jnowak415 wrote:
Organous wrote:
Huh? No, that's not what the rule is. They are not interchangeable. That's why Zombie Madame Hydra specifies both. I personally house-rule they are interchangeable for Patriot, because he's totally broken otherwise (they just officially gave up on Villains). Officially though, they are different. If your HQ/Lair consists of Steve Rogers & Green Goblin, you're going to have to choose which side you really want to use when starting the game.


They officially gave up on Villains?


I think what they've done is abandoned the "Villains" as a separate line. This doesn't mean we wont see villains as "Heroes" (i.e. Thanos, Black Sawn, etc.) or Hydra affiliations (i.e. Bob.) What I think it does mean is don't expect cards that will works with the Villain city setup (backwards spots), don't expect more cards that are going to do a lot of stuff with new recruits, don 't expect cards that will do a lot with bindings, etc.

I found what Mark UD OP said about it earlier:

Mark UD OP wrote:
We brought out Villains as a new way for players to enjoy Legendary. The original idea was to run two lines of alternating Hero and Villain based expansions. We released over time that the game’s mechanics and setup didn’t create a defined line between Hero and Villain. Even the source material of the Marvel universe has never been that cut and dry. I would explain the combinability of Villains with the rest of the Legendary expansions as “You can play Magneto from Villains to help the X-Men from the Core, to fight the Avengers from Villains”.

Will there be an expansion with only Villains as the playable characters? That is up to the source material. Each expansion highlights either specific teams (Dark City, GOTG) or story arcs (Fear Itself, Secret Wars). If an expansion increases the quality of the game, and not just the quantity, we will do it.

Will the terminology from Villains be used again? That’s a tough one. We made it very clear in the Villain rulebook that the terms across the game are the same. This is why you see the Cabal characters as ‘Heroes’, Iron Man as a ‘Mastermind’, and Hero characters as ‘Villains’.

Will there be characters from Hydra or the teams from Villains. Absolutely. We have already had characters that reference cards from Villains and will continue to do so.

Villains is not discontinued. It is not a one off. It’s a part of one giant game.
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Dave Roy
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Could you please give me a link to that post?

If not, I can find it, but I'm hoping you still have it handy/can find it quickly again.

Reading it again brought to mind a question that never really got answered as part of it.
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Here ya go.
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Dave Roy
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Thank you!

Edit:

Just posted in response to Mark on the thread. See it here (in case Mark is looking at this thread but doesn't see that one).
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Davy Ashleydale
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Civil Wars' SHIELD Clearance states: "If you are playing with [HYDRA icon] Heroes, you may discard them instead of [SHIELD icon] Heroes."

So, I take this to mean that "SHIELD Clearance" really means, "SHIELD and/or HYDRA Clearance."

But I would never count one as the other for other cards, like Green Goblin, unless it was explicitly stated like for SHIELD Clearance. If I'm playing with SHIELD agents and Green Goblin, Green Goblin is just not going to be as powerful in that scenario.
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Adam Warpinski
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Is there a definitive source for errata and FAQ from upper deck?
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Josh Worley
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warpaw wrote:
Is there a definitive source for errata and FAQ from upper deck?


There's the official errata/FAQ here in the files section on BGG, but it's a couple years out of date. It was compiled with official answers from Upper Deck and/or Devin Low (along with the sources of the answers), but Jacovis hasn't updated it for a while.
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Jason Walker
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I'm planning on getting an update started in late December that will move the FAQ into a wiki here on BGG then go through all of the posts from UD reps to add newer answers.
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