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Subject: Rule clarification | Ladders and combat rss

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Bryan Beecher
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Rule 7.35 states:
Quote:
Combat units may not melee/attack through unreached Wall or Tower hexsides, unless the attacking unit is using a Siege Tower or a Ladder of if the attacking unit is on a city level higher than the defending unit.


Rule 16.43 states:
Quote:
In order to use Ladders to scale walls, a combat unit moves adjacent to the designated Wall (or Gate, etc.) hexside and places a Ladder Counter in that hex. On the following Game-Turn, units may use the Ladder to cross the Wall at a cost of 3 additional Movement Points.


Question: A unit has just placed a Ladder at the end of its movement. May it attack an enemy unit in a Tower (or on a higher level behind a Wall hexside) in that same Combat Phase? Or must the unit wait until the following Game-Turn to attack?

For movement purposes, the benefit of the ladder is not available until the following turn. Maybe play it the same for combat purposes?
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GodRob
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A unit on a ladder exerts a zone of control to the upper level (per gondor rules) and must make an attack if there is an enemy within their zone of control (per standard rules)

You're right that it doesn't make a lot of sense though.

For example, if a sauron unit is trying to use ladders against unprotected wall hexsides:
turn 1: place ladder on outer wall
turn 2: use ladder at 3 additional MPs. All four MPs are used to move one hex onto the first level.
turn 3: move 1 hex and place another ladder onto the wall between 1st and 2nd levels.
turn 4: use ladder at 3 additional MPs. All four MPs are used to move one hex onto the second level.

However, if the wall IS defended, it works like this:
turn 1: place ladder on outer wall, attack gondor unit defending the wall, advance into first level after victory.
turn 2: move 1 hex and place ladder onto wall between 1st and 2nd level, attack gondor unit defending the wall, advance into second level after victory.

It's twice as fast to attack defended walls than undefended walls!

An alternate solution I've considered would be to only place Ladders during the Siege phase.
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Bryan Beecher
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robertg611 wrote:
It's twice as fast to attack defended walls than undefended walls!

An alternate solution I've considered would be to only place Ladders during the Siege phase.

Hmm, that's an interesting idea. I really like it. The speed of the advance would be unchanged if the walls are not defended, and it also eliminates the "speed bonus" for fighting over walls.

It also has an advantage over my initial thinking: Sauron forces won't suffer the combat penalty for having a ladder during the Westernesse phases if they place a ladder on a turn, but can't use it until the following turn.
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Rob Johnson
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Excellent points, thanks to all, especially GodRob.

I really have to wheedle one of my friends into thoroughly playtesting this stuff!! Been far too long.......
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Chris Hansen
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Agreed! bryanbeecher's questions on the game and GodRob's idea have got me wanting to dust off this game as well.
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