Mim Rodda
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I need some clarification of some of the rules and I'm struggling with the forum as there are so many questions about so many different versions. I found the downloadable summary "Legandary_Unofficial_FAQ_Errata_Clarifications_3.0" which is great but still felt I wasn't getting some of the basics.

Can someone recommend a video (or a few) of a group playing the original game - "Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game" without any expansions where they get all the rules correct?

If there isn't any good suggestions, I will attempt to ask my basic question and sorry if it has already been asked.

I'm confused about the "Reveal a card" instruction. I'll give a specific example:

I was playing with Magneto as the Mastermind whose master strike is "Each player reveals an X Hero or discards down to four cards." And with the scheme twist The Legacy Virus whose twist is "Each player reveals a {tech} Hero or gains a wound." My strategy therefore was to make sure I had X-men and tech Heros in my deck. When a master strike came, does simply having one in your deck protect you from discarding. Or does it have to be in your hand? I know the rules say "You can reveal a card from your hand or you can reveal a card in front of you that you have already played this turn" so my interpretation is that it can't be in your deck (that you haven't drawn from) or in your discard pile. However I don't understand the bit "you can reveal a card in front of you that you have already played" If it is not your turn, surely, you only have 6 cards in your hand, you do not have any cards in front of you. I thought each time you had your go, you finished, discarded everything you used or didn't use and then drew another 6 but didn't action anything ie put anything down in front of you, until it was your go again. Does that mean you are only immune if you have an X-men card in that lot of 6 cards. Since a mastermind card would come out from the villian deck and you're supposed to play a card from the Villian deck first, doesn't that mean no-one will have any cards in front of them that they've already played, they will all just have 6 new cards that they've drawn from their deck?

Sorry long question but wanted to make it as clear as possible as I think I enjoy this game but find some of the rules hard to interpret and think I'm interpreting them too easily (ie I was interpreting "reveal a card..." as as long as one of those cards exists in your personal pile of cards irrespective of if it was in the deck {unplayed} in your hand {waiting your turn to play}, in front of you {in the middle of your turn} or in the discard pile {from previous finished turns}, you were immune - interpreting it this way actually makes it relatively easy to defeat the villains/masterminds..)
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Andrew Brown
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to reveal a card, you need to have it in your hand or already have had it played for the round (and out in front of you. if you KO or discard it afterwards, you can't reveal it anymore)

as for good videos, Watch it Played are always really good about following rules and adding annotations later if they find any rules mistakes. they typically have a how-to-play video followed by several of them actually playing through the game
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Mim Rodda
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And sorry further clarification of that - with Magneto's master strike being "Each player reveals an X Hero or discards down to four cards" does discarding down to 4 mean from your whole personal lot of cards (unplayed deck, the cards in your hand, cards in front of you and your discard) so you only end up with 4 cards in your whole deck; or does it just mean discards down to 4 from the cards in your hand. Actually I think I might understand this one 'discard' is not 'KO' so this purely refers to the 6 cards in your current hand and you simply put two in your discard pile (which you reshuffle and use later) and just for this round can only recruit with/fight with 4 cards... Any clarification?
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Mim Rodda
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I will look at that video suggestion but sorry to sound like I'm not getting it but if you've played it 'for that round' and already had your go, you put it in the discard pile don't you and then draw your next 6? It's therefore in your discard pile and not in front of you.

Or is it just a matter of keeping track of which particular cards you have JUST used and discarded for that round. You could almost have two discard piles - one pile "I've just discarded in case I need to reveal" then when it comes to your turn again, you put that pile in the "I've completely discarded and can never use those in a reveal sense until I've reshuffled and they're back in my hand" pile.
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Max Jansson
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When you discard cards, you discard from your hand. Never from played cards or your deck. Unless instructed otherwise.
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Max Jansson
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MimRodda wrote:
I will look at that video suggestion but sorry to sound like I'm not getting it but if you've played it 'for that round' and already had your go, you put it in the discard pile don't you and then draw your next 6? It's therefore in your discard pile and not in front of you.

Or is it just a matter of keeping track of which particular cards you have JUST used and discarded for that round. You could almost have two discard piles - one pile "I've just discarded in case I need to reveal" then when it comes to your turn again, you put that pile in the "I've completely discarded and can never use those in a reveal sense until I've reshuffled and they're back in my hand" pile.


Cards you play stay in front of you until the end of your turn, then all cards in front of you and in your hand gets placed in the discard pile before you draw a new hand.
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Mim Rodda
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In the Masterstrike case with Magneto, since you're drawing the villian at the beginning of a turn (when the previous person has completely finished their turn so should have discarded anything in front of them and anything they didn't use from their 'hand' and then simply drawn 6 new cards), no one should have any cards in front of them should they? You should all just have 6 cards and each player would have to have an X-man as one of those six to avoid having to lose 2 of those six cards they are currently holding. So in the case of a Masterstrike or Scheme Twist, the extra "or you can reveal a card in front of you that you have already played this turn" written in the rule book would never be valid. I assume therefore (can't think of an example), that there are reveal cards that might happen in the middle of you playing cards in front of you from your hand that the extra instruction about the reveal card would apply to. And since only one person would be putting cards in front of them at a time (as it becomes their turn), the second part of that instruction would only ever apply to one person?
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Max Jansson
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MimRodda wrote:
In the Masterstrike case with Magneto, since you're drawing the villian at the beginning of a turn (when the previous person has completely finished their turn so should have discarded anything in front of them and anything they didn't use from their 'hand' and then simply drawn 6 new cards), no one should have any cards in front of them should they? You should all just have 6 cards and each player would have to have an X-man as one of those six to avoid having to lose 2 of those six cards they are currently holding. So in the case of a Masterstrike or Scheme Twist, the extra "or you can reveal a card in front of you that you have already played this turn" written in the rule book would never be valid. I assume therefore (can't think of an example), that there are reveal cards that might happen in the middle of you playing cards in front of you from your hand that the extra instruction about the reveal card would apply to. And since only one person would be putting cards in front of them at a time (as it becomes their turn), the second part of that instruction would only ever apply to one person?


For the base game this is correct.
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Mim Rodda
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Just relooked at the rule book and saw the example of a Sabertooth card being one that might ask for a 'reveal' mid play when you fight him it says "each player reveals an X hero or gains a wound". So if you've defeated him in the middle of your turn when you have some cards in front of you and some cards still in your hand, you could 'reveal' from either space. For other players they would only have the opportunity to reveal from the six in their hand as they shouldn't have any cards in front of them since it's not their turn?
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Mim Rodda
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Thanks Max. That has helped. I was playing it super easy - no wonder I could always defeat the villians. Was that your understanding too Andrew?
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Jem
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MimRodda wrote:
In the Masterstrike case with Magneto, since you're drawing the villian at the beginning of a turn (when the previous person has completely finished their turn so should have discarded anything in front of them and anything they didn't use from their 'hand' and then simply drawn 6 new cards), no one should have any cards in front of them should they?
....
So in the case of a Masterstrike or Scheme Twist, the extra "or you can reveal a card in front of you that you have already played this turn" written in the rule book would never be valid.

It is possible to trigger a Master Strike mid-way through your own turn, using only the base set.

As a simple route to doing so: If you used Emma Frost's Shadowed Thoughts to play a card from the Villain deck, this might be a Master Strike. An alternative is fighting the Endless Armies of HYDRA, who are generally best avoided.

In-turn actions can also cause villains to escape, (e.g. a full city and drawing a villain with Shadowed Thoughts) and therefore Reignfire (from Dark City) would also trigger a Master Strike effect - Mystique (base set) will provide a scheme twist too.

MimRodda wrote:
And since only one person would be putting cards in front of them at a time (as it becomes their turn), the second part of that instruction would only ever apply to one person?

Sort of. With various expansions, there are ways of having cards laid out in front of you (artefacts, Man Out Of Time) that mean that you have a card (and can "reveal" it), without it being in your hand and without it being your turn.


As an additional note, be aware that you can choose to not reveal a card, including ones on the table that everyone can see. This may be because you wish to suffer the negative effect (for instance, gain a wound so you can use it to boost Wolverine's Healing Factor when your turn comes round) or you can deliberately not reveal a card in one way, then reveal a card (a different card or the exact same one) in another slightly different way.

An example of the latter might be seen when using Captain America to fight The Legacy Virus. Imagine that you have Diving Block in your hand when a Scheme Twist comes up. You could reveal it (because it is a tech card) to avoid gaining a wound, as per the scheme rules. Alternatively, you can reveal it for its own special rules, allowing you to avoid taking a wound and draw a card too.

----

Evil_X wrote:
MimRodda wrote:
In the Masterstrike case with Magneto, since you're drawing the villian at the beginning of a turn (when the previous person has completely finished their turn so should have discarded anything in front of them and anything they didn't use from their 'hand' and then simply drawn 6 new cards), no one should have any cards in front of them should they? You should all just have 6 cards and each player would have to have an X-man as one of those six to avoid having to lose 2 of those six cards they are currently holding. So in the case of a Masterstrike or Scheme Twist, the extra "or you can reveal a card in front of you that you have already played this turn" written in the rule book would never be valid. I assume therefore (can't think of an example), that there are reveal cards that might happen in the middle of you playing cards in front of you from your hand that the extra instruction about the reveal card would apply to. And since only one person would be putting cards in front of them at a time (as it becomes their turn), the second part of that instruction would only ever apply to one person?


For the base game this is correct.

No, it isn't.
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Mim Rodda
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Quote:
As a simple route to doing so: If you used Emma Frost's Shadowed Thoughts to play a card from the Villain deck, this might be a Master Strike. An alternative is fighting the Endless Armies of HYDRA, who are generally best avoided.


OK see your point too Jem. In most cases, in the very basic base game, the Masterstrike and Scheme twists are usually not drawn mid turn but in the case you described with Emma Frost, that would be an exception.

Quote:

In-turn actions can also cause villains to escape, (e.g. a full city and drawing a villain with Shadowed Thoughts) and therefore Reignfire (from Dark City) would also trigger a Master Strike effect - Mystique will provide a scheme twist too.

Sort of. There are ways of having cards laid out in front of you (artefacts, Man Out Of Time) that mean that you have a card (and can "reveal" it), without it being in your hand and without it being your turn.


Your other two examples seem to be from expansions though (though just found your mystique example in the original deck) or maybe I haven't played the original enough to have come across villians with shadowed thoughts, artefacts or man out of time.)
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Jem
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MimRodda wrote:
Quote:

In-turn actions can also cause villains to escape, (e.g. a full city and drawing a villain with Shadowed Thoughts) and therefore Reignfire (from Dark City) would also trigger a Master Strike effect - Mystique will provide a scheme twist too.

Sort of. There are ways of having cards laid out in front of you (artefacts, Man Out Of Time) that mean that you have a card (and can "reveal" it), without it being in your hand and without it being your turn.


Your other two examples seem to be from expansions though or maybe I haven't played the original enough to have come across villians with shadowed thoughts, artefacts or man out of time.)

Yeah, just edited to clarify that

With the base set, I think only the active player should have any cards laid out in front of them.
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Mim Rodda
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Wow. I think I like this game ?... I like the concept but find the rules sometimes a little confusing/convoluted. The next thing I have to correct in our game play is we played where we simply laid everything out in front of us and then just randomly actioned e.g. "Oh look I need another person with a strength ability and he's in my hand so I can get that extra bonus" but from watching the video and clarifying this 'reveal' rule, I've realised you're supposed to keep your six cards in your hand and only lay them out in front of you as you play them and the exact order you play them is quite crucial.... lots of practice (and maybe a few more questions or scouring of this forum) I believe is ahead of me.
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Jem
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MimRodda wrote:
Wow. I think I like this game ?... I like the concept but find the rules sometimes a little confusing/convoluted. The next thing I have to correct in our game play is we played where we simply laid everything out in front of us and then just randomly actioned e.g. "Oh look I need another person with a strength ability and he's in my hand so I can get that extra bonus" but from watching the video and clarifying this 'reveal' rule, I've realised you're supposed to keep your six cards in your hand and only lay them out in front of you as you play them and the exact order you play them is quite crucial.... lots of practice (and maybe a few more questions or scouring of this forum) I believe is ahead of me.

Yeah, action order is hugely important in Legendary. As you add expansions... well to be honest the rules get pretty complicated regarding when certain things are activated. It stays sane for a while though, you'll get there.

Hopefully this post I wrote a while ago may help : https://boardgamegeek.com/article/19596654#19596654

To save you a click though, the most important part is this:
Jemjar wrote:
Three types of "effect" exist on the card descriptions - note that some cards carry more than one of these :

<Effect> - standard effects
These things you'll get whenever you play the card, no conditions, just like the base attack and recruit points and you get the effect once*.
<Symbol> <Effect> - super power effects
You activate this if you have previously played a hero card with the associated symbol (whether that be faction affiliation or power-type) but regardless of the number that have been played, you get the effect once*.
<Symbol> <Symbol> <Effect> - critical strikes
Added with Dark City, you activate this if you have previously played the requisite hero cards to trigger the power, usually two of the same type, but occasionally two different power types but regardless of the number that have been played, you get the effect once*.

Note that there are four key exceptions to the "you get the effect once*", hence the asterisk:

"Whenever" : These abilities will trigger each and every time the trigger conditions are met after you have played the card. Exceptional exception: some of these cards trigger in other ways, it'll be pretty clear on the card, however. But remember that you can trigger them as many times as necessary.

"May" : These abilities allow you to choose not to carry out the effect. This can be very helpful (for example, choosing not to use the Shadowed Thoughts effect is often preferred in tough schemes).

"For each XYZ hero you have played this turn." : These abilities will carry out their effect once for each card of a given type that you have already played this turn. They tend to be some of the most powerful cards in the game, assuming you can trigger them properly.

"For each XYZ hero you have." : These abilities will carry out their effect once for each card of a given type you have at the time you play the card whether they're played in front of you or in your hand. This is an important distinction and could be very powerful, except that the triggering conditions tend to be rather limited (and the benefits rather minor).

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Andrew Brown
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MimRodda wrote:
Wow. I think I like this game ?... I like the concept but find the rules sometimes a little confusing/convoluted.
it seems like you're more of a visual learner, so i think watching the videos will help immensely. have you watched them yet? be sure to watch him play through the game as well.


i already linked the instructional video, but here is the start of the gameplay videos
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Welcome to the forums, by the way!
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Mim Rodda
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Yes Andrew I have finished watching it and it really helped. I think maybe my confusion was not having played many other deck building games it was simply not understanding the terms deck, hand and discard pile. Also not understanding that cards were played in an order so didn't just play off each other. Really appreciate everyone's help. I've played again (against Dr Doom) since clarifying the rules - still creamed the board but will give Loki and go next then if I'm still finding it too easy, might follow the advice to make it harder.
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Andrew Brown
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MimRodda wrote:
Yes Andrew I have finished watching it and it really helped. I think maybe my confusion was not having played many other deck building games it was simply not understanding the terms deck, hand and discard pile. Also not understanding that cards were played in an order so didn't just play off each other. Really appreciate everyone's help. I've played again (against Dr Doom) since clarifying the rules - still creamed the board but will give Loki and go next then if I'm still finding it too easy, might follow the advice to make it harder.
the core set is rather easy.

getting some expansions really ramps up the difficulty, or you can use some of the official variants to increase difficulty that include giving the masterminds more attack (up to +5 i think, but you can certainly do more) or adding extra scheme twists to the deck
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Mim Rodda
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Any expansions particularly recommended? Just played against Loki (solo sadly as my friend cancelled) and one fairly easily (though only 3 villain cards were left in the deck which technically makes it close..) I therefore wouldn't mind an expansion to make it more difficult.
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Dark City is the standard. Generally, the recommendations after that are to go for the Heroes you like the most. Check out the card listing!

Certain persons agitate even for Secret Wars Vol. 1 or Civil War as the next big box. Personally, I stick with Dark City.

(Sadly, Fantastic Four is out of print, but a wonderful expansion nonetheless.)
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