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Shadows of Brimstone: Forbidden Fortress» Forums » General

Subject: Some Ideas to boost the Fo-Fo KS rss

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Phil Barfly
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I take out my crystal ball (the one from the Void Magus) :

- as addon : all the Otherworlds from the 1st KS

- against payment, the possibility to receive what is available fairly quickly

- the SG Forest of the Dead modified to add all the minis (there is none currently!) making it at the right value.

- finally I see a big surprise : the Hell Train (the clever way to boost that campaign).


By the way have you seen the new website of the frogs ?

http://www.flyingfrog.net/

Any suggestions, dreams ?
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Oliver Schaaf
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It would be nice if the add-ons from the first KS would be available especially the unreleased ones. Also some more non gameplay related add-ons would be nice as well (Artbook, plastic tokens, 3D objects etc.).
Finally another social SG would also be very helpful.
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B. C.
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I do wish that some of the threats could be confirmed for use in existing / or awaiting release otherworlds as part of the pitch.

I am sure it would help tempt a few more fence sitters not entirely sold with the Japanese theme ( a comment that rises often) and may wish to treat the fortress as a limited otherworld in their current game and yet still see the value of the offered content.



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Hugo Oringe
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I think that adding the resin depth tracker as an add-on would be a great way to boost this kickstarter.

They seem to be high in demand and they only make a few of these available every now and again on their site.
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Norman Lew
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if I'm reading this right, they say that the add on expansions won't be available till after the kick starter. Doesn't that mean if I buy Caverns or Trederra, I won't get them for 2 more years?

For those who didn't get in on the last ks, but wants this content to play in the near future, is this not a lengthy wait for content that is already available?
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Bernie Roessler
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Good point Norman. I would think Cynder/Trederra would be exceptions but I certainly can't say I've seen any statement confirming that.
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Shelby Babb
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clartann wrote:
if I'm reading this right, they say that the add on expansions won't be available till after the kick starter. Doesn't that mean if I buy Caverns or Trederra, I won't get them for 2 more years?

For those who didn't get in on the last ks, but wants this content to play in the near future, is this not a lengthy wait for content that is already available?


I'm with you, but....

For some people, local and online availability may make it more attractive to order via the KS PM than to try and order online. Either S&H is somehow cheaper (unlikely) or they find it more convenient (more likely). And there are still folk who love FFP and want to help out by buying their product.

But it's stupid for FFP to not offer the option to their backers, as direct sales mean more profit for them and let's them even offer potential discounts ("we're offering our stuff to backers at 25% off MSRP! Which is still 10% more than you'd pay elsewhere! What a bargain!") while also confirming pre-orders of existing supplements they might want to reprint (gotta' get that economy of scale up!).

But yeah, unless they offer stuff at 50% off MSRP after S&H, it's probably not worth it really.
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Bernie Roessler
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What would really add backers, I believe, is Sid confirming he's going to Hex Crawl the new setting. ninja

edit: spelling
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Eric Harman
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Forest of the dead absolutely has minis. It's a deluxe otherworld. They will almost certainly do an update that explains that when we unlock it.
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Neil Edmonds
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Expanding the offer to cover products not originally planned for the Kickstarter is what got Flying Frog in trouble for the original Shadows of Brimstone campaign.

Shipping is not free for Flying Frog - and since most backers would demand a price break on the older SOB content to compete with online retailer prices - this is only a pitch that appeals to Forbidden Fortress Kickstarter backers to unlock more stretch goals (which costs Flying Frog money to make), while providing little additional financial benefit beyond wholesale prices for the old SOB content for Flying Frog.

There might be some savings in terms of increasing the size of the print run to amortize costs between Forbidden Fortress + some old SOB content, but that could change once the variety of products being offered is increased to cover the whole product line(more color matching, product sorting, altered machine setups, etc).
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Sid Rain
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I'm surprised they're not offering more of the original Shadows of Brimstone core sets or expansions. As of now, they're only offering Trederra and Cynder. Yes, most folks backing this are probably familiar with the original material, but I'm sure others may not be or might be looking for a deal on the Core sets or other SoB expansions.

Also, the extra content is great, but different ways of playing the game would be nicer. I'd understand if many of the original backers are overwhelmed with all the content they already have, it's hard enough to even play through everything (plus wave 2 is still on the way in a little over a month or so). I don't know that I see the Japanese theme adding that much different to the game than what's already there. It'll be refreshing to play with samurais and ninjas, but at the end of the day, it's still the same game.

Things I think might help would be: an extended, story-driven campaign (maybe possibly on a world map comprised of hexagon spaces), some sort of Vs Skirmish-style game mode, role-playing options, and maybe a Descent-style app that could take some of the record-keeping/card drawing/dice rolling away. Some of that stuff maybe outside of the scope of what they planned (an app would be nuts), but it could help to get people excited more for it... maybe.
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Klutz
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paddirn wrote:
Things I think might help would be: an extended, story-driven campaign (maybe possibly on a world map comprised of hexagon spaces), some sort of Vs Skirmish-style game mode, role-playing options, and maybe a Descent-style app that could take some of the record-keeping/card drawing/dice rolling away. Some of that stuff maybe outside of the scope of what they planned (an app would be nuts), but it could help to get people excited more for it... maybe.


Now those are ideas that might've gotten me excited for a new Kickstarter!

Especially a campaign setting. I don't play Star Wars: Armada, but FFG is coming out with "The Corellian Conflict", a "Campaign Expansion" and it almost tempted me to pick up the game just for the campaign!

If FFP did something like that for Brimstone, I'd be really interested.
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Adrian Boddice
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FFP could make a guarantee that none of this will be at GenCon in 2017 and that there will be no conference events in 2018 where non-backers can get any product before backers.

Many backers of the first campaign have indicated they will just wait till retail/conference and get it before the backers anyway. If FFP does not make a stance on this or worse repeats the approach for FoFo it will decrease the point in backing on KS...
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Joe Price
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It depends on how much money you have. Directly from the Frogs is MSRP. Any pledge right now for FF is more than 50% off MSRP. If you expect to buy and want to save money, don't wait.

I also think that we are much more likely to see one massive delivery with how they have it structured and the lessons they appear to have learned.
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Johannes Heimann
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KevBelisle wrote:

Especially a campaign setting. I don't play Star Wars: Armada, but FFG is coming out with "The Corellian Conflict", a "Campaign Expansion" and it almost tempted me to pick up the game just for the campaign!

If FFP did something like that for Brimstone, I'd be really interested.


+1
What I would really like to see is what I would call 'World Books' for each Otherworld
Including a map (or several) of the World (like the one for the weird west in the base boxes) with highlighted Locations and ROIs. Some cities (if the setting has any)to visit with different allegiances, some hostile, some neutral along with the listing of equivalents of the wild west town buildings (a Gladiator's pit instead of a Saloon, a witch hut instead of the doctor's Office etc.)
Each ROI (Town) could have it's own Mission(s) (or random Mission) to complete.
To flesh out the RGP concept I would also love some artwork thrown in and stats for alternate enemies and such... (similar to an RPG book)

Some fans here have already contributed much to push the game in a RPG direction and I think FFP should listen to their dedicated fanbase because they created a fantastic tool and seem almost oblivious to it's deep RPG possibilities.

I personnaly would love a 'The Long way home' campaign where
the posse found and stumbled through a Portal in the remains of Brimstone. Before they can grasp what has happened the Portal Closes on them and they now are wandering the worlds in search of a Portal that will finally bring them home...
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Klutz
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White Raven wrote:
KevBelisle wrote:

Especially a campaign setting. I don't play Star Wars: Armada, but FFG is coming out with "The Corellian Conflict", a "Campaign Expansion" and it almost tempted me to pick up the game just for the campaign!

If FFP did something like that for Brimstone, I'd be really interested.


+1
What I would really like to see is what I would call 'World Books' for each Otherworld
Including a map (or several) of the World (like the one for the weird west in the base boxes) with highlighted Locations and ROIs. Some cities (if the setting has any)to visit with different allegiances, some hostile, some neutral along with the listing of equivalents of the wild west town buildings (a Gladiator's pit instead of a Saloon, a witch hut instead of the doctor's Office etc.)
Each ROI (Town) could have it's own Mission(s) (or random Mission) to complete.
To flesh out the RGP concept I would also love some artwork thrown in and stats for alternate enemies and such... (similar to an RPG book)

Some fans here have already contributed much to push the game in a RPG direction and I think FFP should listen to their dedicated fanbase because they created a fantastic tool and seem almost oblivious to it's deep RPG possibilities.

I personnaly would love a 'The Long way home' campaign where
the posse found and stumbled through a Portal in the remains of Brimstone. Before they can grasp what has happened the Portal Closes on them and they now are wandering the worlds in search of a Portal that will finally bring them home...


I also want to look into the X-Wing fan-made campaign Heroes of the Aturi Cluster. From what I've heard, there's a mission deck from which you draw your next mission, and depending on the outcome of a mission, you shuffle a new mission into the deck.

I think that could make for a really neat setup for SoB. You can have branching adventures, mix multiple different adventures together (easily expandable!), have custom encounters or other triggers that have you shuffle a new mission into the deck ("You found a map, shuffle the 'In Search of Treasure' mission card into the campaign deck"). Maybe the town starts off small, and after a few missions you've closed off a gate that was stopping the construction of the rail road, and 2 missions later, now that the rail road is complete the town starts growing. Etc, etc...
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Johannes Heimann
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KevBelisle wrote:

I think that could make for a really neat setup for SoB. You can have branching adventures, mix multiple different adventures together (easily expandable!), have custom encounters or other triggers that have you shuffle a new mission into the deck ("You found a map, shuffle the 'In Search of Treasure' mission card into the campaign deck"). Maybe the town starts off small, and after a few missions you've closed off a gate that was stopping the construction of the rail road, and 2 missions later, now that the rail road is complete the town starts growing. Etc, etc...


Like I said, there's so much opportunity in there... and a very dedicated fan base. Alas I lack the skill and time to make such books on my own. (and I prefer manufactured components by far ) But that would be #1 on my whishlist for the SoB Universe as I think it would add immensely.
(But sadly, if you look at board game development developers and Publishers don't tend to adopt ideas and concepts made up by fans and, in fact, seem to avoid them)
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Murray Quarmby
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I think it may be too late. They forgot to post messages or updates in the first couple of days like it didn't matter to them - I kept going back to see if there was a 'wooo hooo we funded' but no. It seems like they are just letting it float half the time.
 
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Klutz
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Spoiler alert: Turns out, Flying Frog really haven't learned anything about better communication...

surprise surprise surprise


Really makes you wonder whether they've gotten better at estimating time frames, or if they're going to be off by ~140%.
 
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Joanna G
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KevBelisle wrote:

Spoiler alert: Turns out, Flying Frog really haven't learned anything about better communication...

surprise surprise surprise


Really makes you wonder whether they've gotten better at estimating time frames, or if they're going to be off by ~140%.


Being better at communicating =/= being better at estimating time. They are unrelated skills.

Also, they have been more present and updating more often than they did in the original KS and have been listening to backers suggestions.
 
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Klutz
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horfrost3 wrote:
Also, they have been more present and updating more often than they did in the original KS and have been listening to backers suggestions.


I was replying to Quarmby's comment that they didn't update enough in the first couple days.

And no, the new KS doesn't have more updates than the first one - if we look at the first 25 days, it has 1 less!
 
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Neil Edmonds
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Quote:
(But sadly, if you look at board game development developers and Publishers don't tend to adopt ideas and concepts made up by fans and, in fact, seem to avoid them)


There are legal reasons for behaving this way. Reviewing someone's ideas opens the publisher up to lawsuits similar to a Hollywood studio reading someone's script.

If it's any consolation, I'm sure everyone has their own personal ideas about what Shadows of Brimstone "needs." You could probably find a few people that agree with you in an online forum, but that doesn't mean every customer who bought Shadows of Brimstone would then go out and buy the expansion if it was made.

There's issues around portfolio management - offering different types of games - that distributors and retailers ask for that we, as SOB customers, don't need to consider; but are very real concerns for Flying Frog. They haven't been paying as much attention to LNOE, ATOE, FANT, IFOS, etc. because they've been busy with SOB.
 
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