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Subject: Some questions about replacements and reinforcements rss

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YK Tao
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I am playing a campaign scenario as a Soviet commander with my friend. Just met two problems about replacements and reinforcements.

1. Rule 17.3.12 Out Of Supply units, units in advanced fortifications, units adjacent to enemy units, or units out of an HQ’s Command Radius, never receive replacements. SS infanty units cannot receive replacements.
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How about the rebuilt units? If there is a German HQ in a supplied hex adjacent to enemy units or in an advanced fortification hex. Could German player place the rebuilt unit in it?


2. Rule 17.2.1 All the German reinforcements appear according to the Reinforcement Schedule, in a City hex in Germany (Major or Minor) or in a hex containing advanced fortifications. Such hexes must be controlled by the German player
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Yes, the rule is very clear. But I still want to make sure that it means German reinforements can appear in German cities or advanced fortifications which is even totally surrounded by Sovits? In fact, my opposite player just did that when I attacked into Germany, and I find that it is impossible(Yes, impossible, 0% chance) to capature advanced fortifications and very very hard(perhaps less that 10% chance) to capture German major cities(there are so many German reinforcements in 1945, and German player can fill every major city hex and advanced fortification hex with full stacks). If it is permissioned for German player to do that, I think I have no choice but to surrendersoblue. It's impossible for me to capture Berlin which has three hexes of German major cities. In Liberty Roads, German reinforcements can not be placed adjacent to enemy units. Why can it be done in VR? Even nowadays I don't think US can do the same thing if a city is totally surrounded by Russians.

Perhaps a balanced Downfall (9 turns: January-May 45) scenario can persuade me that Soviet have chance to win even it is so hard to capature advanced fortifications and German major cities. But since the scenario has not been Released until now, does it mean that the designer find it impossible to make a historical scenario that Soviets have chance to win?
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Colin Raitt
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Reinforcements can appear in surrounded cities and advanced fortifications. If you didn't manage an advance after combat he will pop up again. Sadly, Germany has reinforcements every turn. I view rebuilds as based on a useless cadre in the hex where they will appear. So they can't be rebuilt next to the enemy.

Advanced fortifications are tough to take but not impossible. At 6:1 there is a 16/36 chance of DR3 reduced to S which allows advance after combat. Dropping to a 1/36 chance at 2:1 odds. Most can be bypassed anyway.

Major cities like Berlin are a little easier, any DR result reduces to at least an S which allows advance after combat. A whopping 31/36 chance at 6:1 down to 3/36 at 1:2. Committing elite defenders reduces the probability to 6/36 at 6:1. My advice is to get stuck in and expect to have to pay for some ground twice.

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Jordi Cairol
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Quote:
1. Rule 17.3.12 Out Of Supply units, units in advanced fortifications, units adjacent to enemy units, or units out of an HQ’s Command Radius, never receive replacements. SS infanty units cannot receive replacements.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
How about the rebuilt units? If there is a German HQ in a supplied hex adjacent to enemy units or in an advanced fortification hex. Could German player place the rebuilt unit in it?


I would say no. Strictly reading the rules, 'an eliminated German unit needs 1 RP for each step rebuilt' (17.3.6) and as you said, in 17.3.12 says that units adjacent to an enemy unit cannot receive any RPs. This is the wording in the original French. I don't know how it is written in the English translation.

I'm not sure about your second question, though. We need to investigate further.
 
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Rodger Samuel
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I have a hard time believing that the designer intended to allow reinforcements to appear in surrounded cities. How? Where do they come from?

If this is truly the designer's intent, I'd like to hear the rationale for what seems like such an ahistorical decision.
 
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YK Tao
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polate wrote:
Reinforcements can appear in surrounded cities and advanced fortifications. If you didn't manage an advance after combat he will pop up again. Sadly, Germany has reinforcements every turn. I view rebuilds as based on a useless cadre in the hex where they will appear. So they can't be rebuilt next to the enemy.

Advanced fortifications are tough to take but not impossible. At 6:1 there is a 16/36 chance of DR3 reduced to S which allows advance after combat. Dropping to a 1/36 chance at 2:1 odds. Most can be bypassed anyway.

Major cities like Berlin are a little easier, any DR result reduces to at least an S which allows advance after combat. A whopping 31/36 chance at 6:1 down to 3/36 at 1:2. Committing elite defenders reduces the probability to 6/36 at 6:1. My advice is to get stuck in and expect to have to pay for some ground twice.


The true problem is not whether you can advance after conmbat or not. The problem is you can hardly kill all the units in an advanced fortification or a German major city hex by only one dice rolling in one turn.

In fact it's truly impossible to take Advanced fortifications. Well, you can advance into the Advanced fortifications by getting DR3 result. But fristly, you must kill all the units in the fortification. If German put at least 4 steps units in the fortification with one additional step of Haltebefehl marker, you could only kill all the units by rolling 11 or 8, and wish for a dice luck for the second dice rolling. By the way, to get a 6:1 odds to take the fortification, you should always put almost all your units and support chits into the combat, sometimes, even if you invest all your units and support chits, it's impossible to get a 6:1 odds.

For a German major city, yea, it's a little easier. But you can win the combat only by rolling 10~12 at 6:1 odds to get a DR result(for other results, like takeing advanced fortifications, you can never kill all the units in the city). A wise German player will always put a elite unit in the city. Then, it become a dice game for rolling 6 in 1D6. Rolling 6, you win, not 6, you lose and wait for the next turn. Is there so many turns for you to wait for a good dice result? And you need to take all three hexes of Berlin to win.

The Soviets swept Poland and east Germany in 1945 in history. The fortificatios and major cities in Germany did not bother them very much. Only few cities in east Germany, like Breslau, did not fall when Berlin fell. But if Soviets are really willing to take the cities by investing more resource, the cities will fall in a short time like Berlin in history. But in VR, if German player want to hold a advanced fortification, Soviet will never have chance to take it in the whole game, even investing all his resources every turn. If German player want to hold a German major city, Soviet will have less than 20% chance to take it by investing all his resource in one turn. I did not like a long caimpaign game turning not to be a dice rolling game in the second half.
 
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Jordi Cairol
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Yesterday, in our game, we had another curious situation related to reinforcements and replacements.

In this case it is about the Romanians. They just changed sides last turn to join the Soviet camp. So they started to reappear as reinforcements. The rule says they spawn on or adjacent to supplied Soviet units. So they were placed one hex ahead of the last Soviet unit, next to German units, to just cut the German supply line.
 
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YK Tao
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After discussing with my opposite, we decide to add a house rule that German reinforcements can't be placed in a German city or an advanced fortification if it is totally surrounded by Soviet units.

The definition of "totally surrounded" means all the adjacent hexes of the German city or advanced fortification is occupied by Soviet units. If German player want to hold the city or fortification, he must try to keep the hex without being totally surrounded, not just leave it alone and keep placing reinforcements in it, which looks unrealistic and silly.
 
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