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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Random Weakness Faceup or Facedown rss

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Michael Logan
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When you are building your deck, do you get to know what random basic weakness was added to your deck? (and I know you will no which random weakness was added later in the campaign as you keep the weakness)

I can't seem to find anything about this in the rules and if there is a thread about it, I have missed it, so apologies for creating an additional thread.
 
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Milo Gertjejansen
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The rule book doesn't say you don't get to see it so you get to.

That being said it seems thematic to not see it.

Edit: also, this took two seconds to find. https://boardgamegeek.com/article/24209895
 
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Julius Besser
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You draw the random weakness faceup.
Here's my other thread on that: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1671803/random-basic-weakne...
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Mathieu
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mfl134 wrote:
When you are building your deck, do you get to know what random basic weakness was added to your deck? (and I know you will no which random weakness was added later in the campaign as you keep the weakness)

I can't seem to find anything about this in the rules and if there is a thread about it, I have missed it, so apologies for creating an additional thread.


I prefer to do it facedown but I can see theme in both options. I think a previous thread concluded you can see it though.
 
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Aaron Shanowitz
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miloshot wrote:
That being said it seems thematic to not see it.

I don't agree with this. If a mob enforcer is after you, you'll probably know it. You'll also need to prepare for him to show up at any time. Knowing your weakness also helps enhance your character's backstory, even just by looking at the flavor text: You knew you shouldn’t have borrowed money from the O’Bannion gang. It seems like they’re always looking to collect at the worst times.
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Dee
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I'm opting to reveal the card. Two reasons: First, I enjoy the 'mitigating tragedy' aspect of the gameplay, and I find it engaging to consider any given turn in terms of hoping to play around the effects of possible Encounter cards or weaknesses that may show up. Second, there's the chance of accidentally seeing the card when tutoring up, say, a Tome or seeing the weakness pop up in your opening draw. This feels 'messy' for want of a better word, unsatisfying on some level perhaps.
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Milo Gertjejansen
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theaaron wrote:
miloshot wrote:
That being said it seems thematic to not see it.

I don't agree with this. If a mob enforcer is after you, you'll probably know it. You'll also need to prepare for him to show up at any time. Knowing your weakness also helps enhance your character's backstory, even just by looking at the flavor text: You knew you shouldn’t have borrowed money from the O’Bannion gang. It seems like they’re always looking to collect at the worst times.


On one hand, maybe. I could see that with the physical threats. On the other maybe you borrowed money and you didn't know it was the mob that backed them.

Then suddenly when the mob enforcer shows up you understand why but you didn't know they were after a more aggressive repayment plan.

In regards to the quote It seems like they’re always looking to collect at the worst times. What times are those? Do you know that they are after you right now? Maybe you borrowed only a little money and they O'Bannion gang has bigger fish to fry.

That's only mentioning the physical threats too. With mental disorders like paranoia, etc. you never know what the horrors of the mythos might inflict upon you. Honestly it seems unthematic to see a mental disorder as you draw it: "oh, looks like I have amnesia.. So I better prepare for that???"

Finally, I just like the surprise so I will keep not looking at my basic weaknesses and I think I can justify it the way I did above.
 
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Christian Kløve
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From the previews of Dunwhich Legacy, it looks like some of the weaknesses in that set start in play, so you would have to look at your basic weakness when playing with those.
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Richard Johnson
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I also like keeping it a secret. The beauty about this being a co-op game is that there is more freedom in house ruling it.
 
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Michael Logan
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I suppose if it is face up, what is the real point of making it random?

You are picking it at the start of the campaign. Why not just start over until you get the one you want?

I understand if things get added randomly during the campaign needing to start exactly as is, but it feels weird to have very specific deckbuilding only to end up with one random card (that you know about).

So there is randomness right off the start that could put you in a better or worse position, despite nothing in the game having happened yet.
 
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mfl134 wrote:
I suppose if it is face up, what is the real point of making it random?

You are picking it at the start of the campaign. Why not just start over until you get the one you want?


You're playing alone or with your friends, why not just assume you'll always draw the elder sign token and not bother with the chaos bag?
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Christian Kløve
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There is a big difference between drawing a random weakness face up and cherrypicking whichever weakness you like.
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Michael Logan
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Gaffa wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
I suppose if it is face up, what is the real point of making it random?

You are picking it at the start of the campaign. Why not just start over until you get the one you want?


You're playing alone or with your friends, why not just assume you'll always draw the elder sign token and not bother with the chaos bag?


My example is the same as starting over.
Your example is the same as using saved states in the game.

I hope you can see the difference.
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Michael Logan
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Kløve wrote:
There is a big difference between drawing a random weakness face up and cherrypicking whichever weakness you like.


I agree. Just feels off that the random weakness could be different for 2 different players and that could be the difference between success and defeat all else equal. But I understand there are other of random elements that it will inevitably all balance out.

But this random thing stays with you, the other random things are one offs. (Though I'm sure random events in the game will have some form of permanent effect as well, so that is probably a mostly irrelevant statement.)

Either way, I will surely be playing the game accepting whatever random weakness comes to me.
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mfl134 wrote:
Gaffa wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
I suppose if it is face up, what is the real point of making it random?

You are picking it at the start of the campaign. Why not just start over until you get the one you want?


You're playing alone or with your friends, why not just assume you'll always draw the elder sign token and not bother with the chaos bag?


My example is the same as starting over.
Your example is the same as using saved states in the game.

I hope you can see the difference.


No, because in both cases you're saying you don't trust yourself to actually deal with the game state you dealt yourself.

Yes, nothing stops you from redrawing your basic weakness until you get one you want. Why would you? Just pick the one you want and be happy with your clever self, getting that perfect weakness for your deck.
 
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Bobby Marino
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All 8 of the basic weaknesses, to me, seem to have equal chance of really screwing with you. If there was one I'd arguably say is worse than the others, it is the cultist who adds doom when he attacks, and even with that it's not 100% guaranteed he'll get a chance to attack. Any of them could be terrible, or they could be nothing. I've drawn Paranoia right after spending all my resources, so it did nothing except waste a draw for me. If it happened a turn earlier, I would have been screwed. I don't see how you can build a deck that is markedly better if you have a certain weakness, so I think they did a good job with this random weakness piece after you have your deck built.

So I randomly shuffle them, take one (facedown) and then look at it before it goes into my deck (which is how I'd say it is meant to be played) - it almost adds that extra level of insanity, knowing what you'll be forced to deal with. i.e. You know that at some point you'll lose all your resources, so you don't stockpile them, or you know that a mob enforcer will be coming, so you prepare to either parley or kill him. It also lets you upgrade your decks between scenarios to be better suited to deal with it.

I could see the fun in not knowing what is coming so it just hits like a bomb, but then there is no changing the way you play to prepare for it, whether it comes or not. I guess I like the nuances of having in the back of my mind that something specific is coming.
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Michael Logan
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Gaffa wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
Gaffa wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
I suppose if it is face up, what is the real point of making it random?

You are picking it at the start of the campaign. Why not just start over until you get the one you want?


You're playing alone or with your friends, why not just assume you'll always draw the elder sign token and not bother with the chaos bag?


My example is the same as starting over.
Your example is the same as using saved states in the game.

I hope you can see the difference.


No, because in both cases you're saying you don't trust yourself to actually deal with the game state you dealt yourself.


Huh? When did I say I don't trust myself? one is starting a game from scratch, the other isn't? But luckily we don't need to agree.
 
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Allan Clements
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Basically the starting basic weakness is "random" in as much you can either take one actually randomly and play and see how it goes. Or you can basically just take which one you want (as if you rebuilt your deck as many times as needed to get it).

If I did start a new game and got the same exact weakness again, I may just redraw just to try something different. Or I might redraw it because this one is particularly bad for the deck I just made, or maybe I will pick the worst possible one for the deck I just made.

None of these seem particular against the spirit of the game. (the basic starter decks even tell you to pick a specific weakness)

However during the game, randomness is randomness. Your card draws, your chaos token pulls are all part of the game.
 
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Dean L
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mfl134 wrote:
I suppose if it is face up, what is the real point of making it random?

You are picking it at the start of the campaign. Why not just start over until you get the one you want?

I understand if things get added randomly during the campaign needing to start exactly as is, but it feels weird to have very specific deckbuilding only to end up with one random card (that you know about).

So there is randomness right off the start that could put you in a better or worse position, despite nothing in the game having happened yet.


Solo maybe. With two it's just a one in 56 chance of you both drawing the one you want. With three or four the odds of you all getting the one you want are very small. When more are added with Dunwich, even for two players it'd be a lot of draws before you both get what you want. Sure, you could not deal them out and just let players pick, but at that point you are using a save point, albeit between the first and second random element of the game, but still.

(And if you're okay with that, then equally logically it's also okay to pick your own starting hand, because you could always restart until you got the hand you wanted too).
 
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Scott Hill
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mfl134 wrote:
I suppose if it is face up, what is the real point of making it random?

You are picking it at the start of the campaign. Why not just start over until you get the one you want?

I'm going to just assume that I kept on starting over until I got the outcome that I wanted, and so instead of actually playing the game I'm just going to read the outcomes and choose the one I want.
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