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Subject: Steve Bannon's own political philosophy rss

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Steve Cates
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Instead of all the spin just hear it from his own mouth. He gave this speech in 2011, during the time occupy wall street was in the news. He lays out his political philosophy and makes a number of points about the American people that rings prophetic of this election. "They're not cloven foot devils who are racists and homophobes. They're regular Americans who don't want to pay for their own destruction anymore."

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Burke Martin
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"Bannon was a Hollywood producer who created the Seinfeld comedy TV series"

lol ok
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Les Marshall
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Waiting to the little old lady from the Wendy's commercials to run out and demand "Where's the Beef?!"

Lot's of platitudes here but not much real analysis.
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Shawn Fox
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Ok so I listened to it, basically 24 minutes of Bannon saying nothing at all. Clearly he is a good speaker, but the only "philosophy" expressed in his speech was the typical conservative nonsense about the younger generations being a bunch of unreligious losers who don't know anything about the way the world works. Pretty much the same thing old people have been saying about the younger generations for the last 10,000 years of human history.

Oh there was some bullshit scaremongering in there about future government liabilities where he compared the next 100 years of "liabilities" (social security, medicare, etc) to the current value of all assets in the US. Something like $50 trillion in assets vs $400 trillion in liabilities. Basically completely ignoring that the current assets increase in value over time and produce cash flow on the order of $18 trillion per year, clearly showing that the current value of US assets is far beyond $50 trillion. A more realistic estimate is that the US has current assets around $200 trillion.

Also, assumptions that health care costs will continue to increase forever are nonsense. Eventually we are very likely to see a drastic reduction in costs. Technology has a way, eventually, of making really expensive things very cheap. Might take another 50 to 100 years, but it will happen.
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Oliver Dienz
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I stopped 6 min in. This guy does not even know accounting; $200 trillion in liabilities and only $60 trillion in assets: What a BS! A financial liability is something you owe to someone. Which means for each debtor there must be a creditor. Heck, even stocks are an asset of the stock holder and a liability of the issuing company. Both are a wash. Or in general:

financial liabilities = financial assets

The only liabilities the US as an independent currency issuer may need to worry about are the ones held by foreigners. That is what the US really owes someone else. And that is negligible compared with the value of the real assets the US holds:
Quote:
Federal real property totals over 900,000 assets with a combined area of over 3 billion square feet and more than 41 million acres of land. Additionally, the federal government owns over 600 million acres of lands and minerals onshore, and owns or manages a total of approximately 755 million acres of onshore subsurface mineral estate. Offshore, the federal government owns some 1.76 billion acres of lands and mineral estate, extending out 200 nautical miles from our shores. The federal government’s total mineral estate holdings are therefore about 2.515 billion acres of lands. ...
IER estimated the worth of the government’s oil and gas technically recoverable resources to the economy to be $128 trillion...

http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/federal-asset...

And about that stuff about the "unfunded" trillion $ in social security benefits, he certainly does not understand the real problem. I quote one of my earlier posts:
Quote:
At any point in time there is a part of the population working and producing ALL the output that is being consumed. The other part of the population is not working but still consumes SOME part of the produced output. Thus, the workers need to produce a SURPLUS that is then consumed by the non-workers. This relationship can be expressed in a model (e. g. Diamond OLG) in which the workers save some of their income (reducing their consumption) and then live off those savings when retired. What savings means here is that they accumulate claims towards the following generations on their produced output.

That is the way retirement works in a monetary economy. It does not matter whether we talk about public saving (Social Security) or private saving (IRA etc.). It would only not be true when the workers would accumulate durable consumption goods (instead of financial assets) that they would then solely consume when retired.

What matters then is not the total amount of financial assets (= total debt) available in a society but their distribution. That means how much of the output one generation can consume versus another. If a society needs to prepare for a drop in the working population it needs to realize that this is not a financial problem. Instead, it has to ensure that the future workers have a higher productivity that the output will remain the same/increases. To increase productivity investment in labor (e. g. education, healthcare) and real capital (e. g. plants, infrastructure etc.) are required. Saving money (= spending less) is the exact opposite and will therefore exacerbate the problem of a declining workforce.

The biggest fallacy of our time is the thought that we can prepare for the future by saving money. What is true on an individual level falls apart when you look at a society as a whole.

Throwing around trillion dollar sums is simply a means to get the sheep in line that they keep happily toiling for a minimum wage "for the good of the country" while the spoils go to the ones at the top. Where have I seen that before?


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Steve Cates
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sfox wrote:
Ok so I listened to it, basically 24 minutes of Bannon saying nothing at all. Clearly he is a good speaker, but the only "philosophy" expressed in his speech was the typical conservative nonsense about the younger generations being a bunch of unreligious losers who don't know anything about the way the world works. Pretty much the same thing old people have been saying about the younger generations for the last 10,000 years of human history.

I didn't hear him say unreligious losers once, I did hear him say that we should listen to these kids. Philosophy that you missed was that we have to end the tax and spend government.
 
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Pontifex Maximus
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ironcates wrote:
Instead of all the spin just hear it from his own mouth. He gave this speech in 2011, during the time occupy wall street was in the news. He lays out his political philosophy and makes a number of points about the American people that rings prophetic of this election. "They're not cloven foot devils who are racists and homophobes. They're regular Americans who don't want to pay for their own destruction anymore."



So basically your counter to spin is a five year old video of him pontificating? You have something a more current and a lot less pathetic given this is the man who's website proclaimed Ricard Spencer as a "leading intellectual"

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/11/21/meet_the_n...

So how many lame explanations are you going to come up with to whitewash the man whose website he proclaimed as a platform for folks like these ?
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Shawn Fox
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ironcates wrote:
sfox wrote:
Ok so I listened to it, basically 24 minutes of Bannon saying nothing at all. Clearly he is a good speaker, but the only "philosophy" expressed in his speech was the typical conservative nonsense about the younger generations being a bunch of unreligious losers who don't know anything about the way the world works. Pretty much the same thing old people have been saying about the younger generations for the last 10,000 years of human history.

I didn't hear him say unreligious losers once, I did hear him say that we should listen to these kids. Philosophy that you missed was that we have to end the tax and spend government.

Typical conservative bullshit which ignores the amount of taxes paid in the US is among the lowest of all developed countries.
 
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Oliver Dienz
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ironcates wrote:
sfox wrote:
Ok so I listened to it, basically 24 minutes of Bannon saying nothing at all. Clearly he is a good speaker, but the only "philosophy" expressed in his speech was the typical conservative nonsense about the younger generations being a bunch of unreligious losers who don't know anything about the way the world works. Pretty much the same thing old people have been saying about the younger generations for the last 10,000 years of human history.

I didn't hear him say unreligious losers once, I did hear him say that we should listen to these kids. Philosophy that you missed was that we have to end the tax and spend government.

And that would help the country exactly how?
 
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Steve Cates
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For people that actually watched the video:
Poll
Does Steve Bannon come off as a racist, mysoginist, anti-Semite, homophobe?
yes
no
      6 answers
Poll created by ironcates
 
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Shawn Fox
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ironcates wrote:
For people that actually watched the video:
Poll
Does Steve Bannon come off as a racist, mysoginist, anti-Semite, homophobe?
yes
no
      6 answers
Poll created by ironcates

I didn't vote as one video means nothing. I'm sure you can find many speeches (or transcripts of speeches) made by Hitler where he never once suggested that killing all the Jews was the solution to Germany's problems.
 
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Andrew Bartosh

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ironcates wrote:
For people that actually watched the video:


...er. I know we're still fumbling around with the value of polls here, but this feels like it is intended to be used in a really misleading way. Apologies if your intended argument is not "See, as this video proves, Steven Bannon is not these things."

While the question asked is, in and of itself, legitimate, the ends I suspect it is going to be used for are not. For starters, a single public appearance is really not a good way to judge someone's character. While you can certainly make guesses about it, let's keep in mind that you can act differently in different circumstances. It is best, whenever possible, to look at people as the amalgamation of their actions. Bad people can do good things, good people can do bad things, etc, etc.

Moreover, five years is a LOT of time. People change. It is entirely possible to change your views and attitude dramatically in that amount of time. The Steve Bannon of today, for better or worse, might not be the same Steve Bannon of 5 years ago.

Edit: To be clear, I have no judgment of Bannon either way. Don't know enough. Just wanted to point this out.
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Chris Binkowski
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ironcates wrote:
Instead of all the spin just hear it from his own mouth. He gave this speech in 2011, during the time occupy wall street was in the news. He lays out his political philosophy and makes a number of points about the American people that rings prophetic of this election. "They're not cloven foot devils who are racists and homophobes. They're regular Americans who don't want to pay for their own destruction anymore."



Thanks for sharing this. I had never heard of Bannon before all the outrage began.
 
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Steve Cates
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Just to answer those saying, "Why post a 5 year old video?" Well, if I post something from yesterday the inevitable response will be, he's just changing his tone to make everyone like him.

This is before he even dreamed of a Trump presidency. He said basically we're in probably a 15 year battle to limit government and he's continued that effort through today.
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AndrewRogue wrote:
ironcates wrote:
For people that actually watched the video:


...er. I know we're still fumbling around with the value of polls here, but this feels like it is intended to be used in a really misleading way. Apologies if your intended argument is not "See, as this video proves, Steven Bannon is not these things."

While the question asked is, in and of itself, legitimate, the ends I suspect it is going to be used for are not. For starters, a single public appearance is really not a good way to judge someone's character. While you can certainly make guesses about it, let's keep in mind that you can act differently in different circumstances. It is best, whenever possible, to look at people as the amalgamation of their actions. Bad people can do good things, good people can do bad things, etc, etc.

Moreover, five years is a LOT of time. People change. It is entirely possible to change your views and attitude dramatically in that amount of time. The Steve Bannon of today, for better or worse, might not be the same Steve Bannon of 5 years ago.

Edit: To be clear, I have no judgment of Bannon either way. Don't know enough. Just wanted to point this out.


Bannon did not start making Breitbart into a platform for the alt-right until about 2012 when Breitbart died. So yeah, it's really misleading to post remarks from 5 years ago.
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Shawn Fox
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ironcates wrote:
Just to answer those saying, "Why post a 5 year old video?" Well, if I post something from yesterday the inevitable response will be, he's just changing his tone to make everyone like him.

This is before he even dreamed of a Trump presidency. He said basically we're in probably a 15 year battle to limit government and he's continued that effort through today.

Nothing he said in the speech excluded the possibility that he was racist, he just didn't say anything racist in that speech.
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Les Marshall
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ironcates wrote:
For people that actually watched the video:
Poll
Does Steve Bannon come off as a racist, mysoginist, anti-Semite, homophobe?
yes
no
      6 answers
Poll created by ironcates


You should include a category for indeterminate. Someone may be bigoted or misogynistic and still engage in neutral conversation.
 
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odie73 wrote:
At any point in time there is a part of the population working and producing ALL the output that is being consumed. The other part of the population is not working but still consumes SOME part of the produced output. Thus, the workers need to produce a SURPLUS that is then consumed by the non-workers. This relationship can be expressed in a model (e. g. Diamond OLG) in which the workers save some of their income (reducing their consumption) and then live off those savings when retired. What savings means here is that they accumulate claims towards the following generations on their produced output.

That is the way retirement works in a monetary economy. It does not matter whether we talk about public saving (Social Security) or private saving (IRA etc.). It would only not be true when the workers would accumulate durable consumption goods (instead of financial assets) that they would then solely consume when retired.

What matters then is not the total amount of financial assets (= total debt) available in a society but their distribution. That means how much of the output one generation can consume versus another. If a society needs to prepare for a drop in the working population it needs to realize that this is not a financial problem. Instead, it has to ensure that the future workers have a higher productivity that the output will remain the same/increases. To increase productivity investment in labor (e. g. education, healthcare) and real capital (e. g. plants, infrastructure etc.) are required. Saving money (= spending less) is the exact opposite and will therefore exacerbate the problem of a declining workforce.

The biggest fallacy of our time is the thought that we can prepare for the future by saving money. What is true on an individual level falls apart when you look at a society as a whole.

I just wanted to pull this out so that I could specifically agree with it. I came up with this argument during the Bush administration when there was a lot of discussion about privatizing Social Security. I was a conservative at the time, but that was the period when I learned that conservatives actually don't have a clue how the economy actually works.

At best the conservatives idolize the concept of pushing numbers around, as if the money itself is actually wealth. They always forget that the economy is made up of actual people, actual machines, actual knowledge, actual land. It isn't made up of piles of money. Money is just a means of indirectly trading goods and services, it is not wealth in itself.
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Someone quick! Find a home video of Steve Bannon opening presents with his children at Christmas. That should prove once and for all that he's not a white nationalist!
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Steve Cates
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sfox wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Just to answer those saying, "Why post a 5 year old video?" Well, if I post something from yesterday the inevitable response will be, he's just changing his tone to make everyone like him.

This is before he even dreamed of a Trump presidency. He said basically we're in probably a 15 year battle to limit government and he's continued that effort through today.

Nothing he said in the speech excluded the possibility that he was racist, he just didn't say anything racist in that speech.

He did say they will call us every name in the book and he specifically said that the tea party he supports aren't racists and homophobes just regular Americans that don't want to fund their own destruction.
 
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she2 wrote:
Someone quick! Find a home video of Steve Bannon opening presents with his children at Christmas. That should prove once and for all that he's not a white nationalist!
whistle ONE of them were the "Father GROGmas" and NONE were S.B.! shake

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hyperbolus wrote:
Interesting take on Bannon from Ben Shapiro



He addresses what She2 and I were talking about in the other Alt-Right thread: most people who think of themselves as Alt-Right aren't part of the Spencer, white nationalist crew.
 
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Pontifex Maximus
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ironcates wrote:
sfox wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Just to answer those saying, "Why post a 5 year old video?" Well, if I post something from yesterday the inevitable response will be, he's just changing his tone to make everyone like him.

This is before he even dreamed of a Trump presidency. He said basically we're in probably a 15 year battle to limit government and he's continued that effort through today.

Nothing he said in the speech excluded the possibility that he was racist, he just didn't say anything racist in that speech.

He did say they will call us every name in the book and he specifically said that the tea party he supports aren't racists and homophobes just regular Americans that don't want to fund their own destruction.


How about something a little more recent, like Breitbart's smear campaign against Chobani as part of their anti-immigrant motif

Quote:

One Breitbart story suggested that Chobani’s hiring of refugees caused Idaho’s rise in tuberculosis with the headline, “TB spiked 500 percent in Twin Falls during 2012, as Chobani Yogurt Opened Plant.” Another titled “Twin Falls refugee rape special report: why are the refugees moving in,” attempted to link the company’s hiring of refugees with two sexual assault cases in the Idaho town. And a third article claimed Chobani has “deep ties” to a pro-Clinton advocacy group that imposed the refugee crisis in Twin Falls.


If you are trying to sugar coat what Bannon is trying to do with campaigns like this then you actually do deserve to be called every name in the book. Trying to claim victimhood for supporting Bannon and his alt right little website would be pathetic, if it wasn't so despicable.
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Steve Cates
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hyperbolus wrote:
Interesting take on Bannon from Ben Shapiro

Yeah, he agrees that the white nationalist, racist, anti-Semite claims are bogus, but comes down on the never trump side and claims Bannon will go after his political enemies. Okay, we'll have to see.
 
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Junior McSpiffy
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she2 wrote:
Someone quick! Find a home video of Steve Bannon opening presents with his children at Christmas. That should prove once and for all that he's not a white nationalist!


You have no idea what tiny bedsheets he got for his kids that year, do you?
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