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Subject: Custom Hero: Siphon (Playtest Cards) rss

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matthew malecki
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Yes, I know, she is powerful. I need help toning her down.

Hero: Siphon
HP: 29

Healing Touch
Power: 1 Hero Target regains 1 hp.

Incapacitated Powers:
- One Hero Target regains 1 HP.
- Destroy an Ongoing card.
- One Hero may deal 1 Energy damage.


Equipment (0 total)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ongoings (20 total)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
2x Collective Healing (Ongoing, limited, Life):
When a Hero Character would regain HP you may redirect it to another Hero Character.

2x Energize (Ongoing, limited):
Increase Energy damage dealt by Siphon by 1.

2x Life Current (Ongoing, Limited, Life):
At the start of your turn Siphon deal 1 Energy damage to all Non-Hero Targets, then each Hero Target other than Siphon regains 1 HP. At the end of your turn, Siphon deals herself 4 Psychic damage, if Siphon deals no damage this way, destroy this card.
At the end of your turn, Siphon deals herself 4 Psychic damage or destroy this card.

2x Medic (Ongoing, Limited, Life):
Power: Each Hero Target regains 1 HP.

2X Spirit of Many (Ongoing, Limited):
(Soulthief’s Touch) heals all other Hero Characters 1 HP.
(Transfer Wounds) heal all other Hero Targets other than Siphon 1 HP.
(Life Spear) Siphon deals each other Hero Character 1 Energy damage and increase x by that amount.

2x Steal Life (Ongoing):
At the start of your turn, you may put up to 3 cards from your hand beneath this card.
Power: destroy all cards beneath this card. Siphon deals 1 target x Energy damage and 1 Hero Target regains x HP. Where x = the number of cards destroyed this way.

2x Vampiric Pulse (Ongoing, Limited):
When a Hero Character deals damage, that Hero regains 1 HP (max 5HP per hero).
At the start of your turn, destroy this card.

2x Vitality Shield (Ongoing, Limited):
When Siphon would be dealt damage, you may redirect that damage to a Non-Hero Target, if you do discard 2 cards or destroy this card.

One-Shot (20 total)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

2x Channel Essence (One-shot):
Each Hero other than Siphon discards the top card of their deck.
Siphon draws 3 cards.

4x Healing Knowledge (One-shot):
Search your deck or trash for 2 cards with the Life keyword, Put 1 in your hand and 1 into play. If you searched your deck, shuffle your deck.

4x Life’s Spear (One-shot):
Siphon deals herself up to 4 Energy damage. Siphon deals 1 Non-Hero Target X+1 Energy damage. Where X = the total amount of damage dealt to Siphon.

4x Soulthief’s Touch (One-shot):
Siphon deals 1 Non-Hero Target 2 Energy damage, then, Siphon regains x HP, Where x = twice the total amount of damage dealt.

4x Swift Aid (One-shot):
You may play up to 2 cards now.

4x Transfer Wounds (One-shot):
Siphon deals herself up to 2 Energy damage.
1 Hero Target other than Siphon regains x HP, Where x = twice the total amount of damage dealt.

2x Vitality to Essence (One-shot):
Siphon deals herself 2 Energy damage, then, Siphon draws x cards, Where x = twice the total amount of damage dealt.


- Revised Healing Knack, Collective Healing, Medic, Life Current, Transfer Wounds, Soulthief’s Touch, Life’s Spear, Healing Knowledge, & Swift Aid.
- Revised HP gave her 4 More
- Revised Life Spear
- Removed Healing Keyword from all cards but Healing Knack, Collective Healing, Medic, & Life Current
- Revised Vampiric Pulse, Swift Aid, Spirit of Many
- Removed 2 Medics and 2 Life Currents
- Added Vitality Shield x2
- Added Channel Essence x2
- Removed Healing Knack x2 and added Vitality to Essence x2
- Made Medic Limited
- Revised Collective Healing
- Reworded Life Current

Play Test Cards 2/3/17


Link to all my stuff
The Armory
 
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Take Walker
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Re: Hero - Siphon
Interesting. I have to admit I like Steal Life and Vampiric Pulse, but I've always liked abilities that let you eat your opponent's HP.

If you feel she's too powerful as a healer, my knee-jerk suggestion would be to make it so that she can't heal herself. With HP that low, she won't be around for long unless she's got solid team support.
 
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Michael Hunter
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Re: Hero - Siphon
I like the draining flavour! I'm generally a bit leery of heavy healing heroes as if they're good enough they make the game drag on - you're not winning fast, but you're not losing either, just making the game go on and on... She does seem like she could be a bit too strong, but it's probably just a matter of tweaking some specific cards. Off the top of my head, Healing Knack + Medic + Life Current, with only my power the entire team is gaining 5HP a turn except Siphon, and even she is going up (if slowly).

Off the top of my head, Medic could just heal 1 HP? Cleansing Downpour on Tempest is a bad precedent, it is a VERY powerful card, and Siphon could get it to 3HP with her healing boost card. 2HP to everyone each turn is amazing, seems fair to get her to have to work and get two cards out for it.

Vampiric Pulse has great flavour but I worry it too could get pretty broken - heroes can pretty easily deal 5-10 damage on a turn with some prep, and having a four man team gain 20-30ish HP in one turn is just too much. Maybe if it was only played by one hero and just healed them? Would still probably mean a double digit life increase if you play it by the right hero. Originally Nepthys' Relic for the Pantheon was first attack gains HP equal to damage dealt, but that proved broken pretty fast, reliably gaining 4-5HP a turn is just too good.

Not a power thing, but Collective healing seems a bit complicated, I can't think of any other splitting damage in Sentinels - each counts as a new instance so gets the Healing Knack bonus? Might be easier if it just allowed you to redirect the entire healing to a new target?

Transfer wounds and Soulthief's touch seem wildly asymmetric - the former is dealing my team 4 and healing us 4 for a net profit of 0. Soulthief's deals the baddies 4 and heals us to 4, for a net profit of 8. Can't imagine often playing the former or ever missing a chance to play the latter.

Life Current makes me a bit nervous... by itself it is probably fine as 4 HP is a big hit to take turn after turn, but with healing knack could get a bit nuts too.

To be honest, a lot of the cards only really get broken with healing knack out, it looks like it could really slow the game down in combination with her AoE heals and make it impossible for the heroes to lose. I know Doc Havoc has Rapid Regen which does the same thing, but that his probably his best card, and he at least doesn't have 2 repeatable AoE heal cards. Maybe if Healing Knack was just "the first time a target regains HP each turn increase it by 2" it would get less degenerate with her AoE heals?
 
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matthew malecki
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Re: Hero - Siphon
Adelphophage thanks for all the great feed back I updated almost all the cards and i think it makes her more manageable.

Adelphophage wrote:
Healing Knack + Medic + Life Current, with only my power the entire team is gaining 5HP a turn except Siphon, and even she is going up (if slowly).


Yes this was bad (But Good)

Adelphophage wrote:
Medic could just heal 1 HP?

I agree 1 HP is better because she has multiple ways of healing.

Adelphophage wrote:
Vampiric Pulse has great flavour but I worry it too could get pretty broken - heroes can pretty easily deal 5-10 damage on a turn with some prep, and having a four man team gain 20-30ish HP in one turn is just too much. Maybe if it was only played by one hero and just healed them? Would still probably mean a double digit life increase if you play it by the right hero. Originally Nepthys' Relic for the Pantheon was first attack gains HP equal to damage dealt, but that proved broken pretty fast, reliably gaining 4-5HP a turn is just too good.


I revised this so it is only the first damage dealt per hero (but Siphon) per turn. So it will help all other hero's but Siphon and she still needs to pay the cost of 4 HP to keep out.

Adelphophage wrote:
Not a power thing, but Collective healing seems a bit complicated, I can't think of any other splitting damage in Sentinels - each counts as a new instance so gets the Healing Knack bonus? Might be easier if it just allowed you to redirect the entire healing to a new target?


Now it is a lot less complicated.

Adelphophage wrote:
Transfer wounds and Soulthief's touch seem wildly asymmetric - the former is dealing my team 4 and healing us 4 for a net profit of 0. Soulthief's deals the baddies 4 and heals us to 4, for a net profit of 8. Can't imagine often playing the former or ever missing a chance to play the latter.


Changed damage dealt to 2 and increased HP regained to double damage dealt. this should make Transfer Wounds better.

Adelphophage wrote:
Life Current makes me a bit nervous... by itself it is probably fine as 4 HP is a big hit to take turn after turn, but with healing knack could get a bit nuts too.


Now affects every one but Siphon.

Adelphophage wrote:
To be honest, a lot of the cards only really get broken with healing knack out, it looks like it could really slow the game down in combination with her AoE heals and make it impossible for the heroes to lose. I know Doc Havoc has Rapid Regen which does the same thing, but that his probably his best card, and he at least doesn't have 2 repeatable AoE heal cards. Maybe if Healing Knack was just "the first time a target regains HP each turn increase it by 2" it would get less degenerate with her AoE heals?


I think now Siphon is A LOT better and less broken. Thanks
 
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matthew malecki
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Re: Hero - Siphon
What version does everyone like

Original)
2x Vampiric Pulse (Ongoing, Limited): Whenever a Hero Character deals damage, that Hero regains X HP. Where X = the total amount of damage dealt. At the start of your turn, destroy this card.

1)
2x Vampiric Pulse (Ongoing, Limited, Healing): The first time a Hero Character other than Siphon deals damage in a turn, that Hero regains X HP. Where X = the total amount of damage dealt. At the start of your turn, Siphon deals herself 4 Psychic damage or destroy this card.

2)
2x Vampiric Pulse (Ongoing, Limited, Healing): The first time a Hero Character deals damage in a turn, that Hero regains X HP. Where X = the total amount of damage dealt. At the start of your turn, destroy this card.
 
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Joseph Guzman
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Re: Hero - Siphon
Cool deck. Fun idea. Change life's spear a little to fit the flavor of the card. Maybe have the option to give up so much HP to increase the damage. Ex.

Life’s Spear (One-Shot):
Siphon may give up to 4 HP. Siphon deals a Non-Hero target X+1 energy damage. X= the amount of HP Siphon gave up.

I do agree with Adelphophage that Siphon's healing is insane for this game. Maybe tone it back a little or make Siphon only able to heal herself and give her HP to other players to really give her a unique feel with a little of regular healing.

Medic (Ongoing, Healing):
Power: each Hero Target regains 2 HP.

This is really strong and maybe should be toned down to a single target. Or as a fun suggestion to what I said earlier, maybe even increase the single target heal to 3 and she has to give up 1HP.


Collective Healing (Ongoing, Limited, Healing):
When a Hero Target would regain HP you may redirect up to X HP to another Hero Target. Where X = the total amount of HP to be regained. Each HP may only be redirected this way once.

Neat card, but it is a little complicated. Like Adelphophage stated, maybe changing it a complete redirect. Maybe even limiting its use to once per turn or changing it to a power where you take HP from one hero and give it to another.


Spirit of Many (Ongoing, Limited, Healing):
Soulthief’s Touch heals all Hero Characters not just Siphon.
Transfer Wounds heals all Hero Targets but Siphon

This is a really cool card. My only issue is that it is really strong for a game that is supposed to be very challenging. My suggestion would be to change it so that Soulthief's Touch heals all other characters 1 HP. Transfer Wounds should maybe be only 1 additional hero other than Siphon as it could get a little too strong to sustaining a group through fights.

Vampiric Pulse (Ongoing, Limited): Whenever a Hero Character deals damage, that Hero regains X HP. Where X = the total amount of damage dealt. At the start of your turn, destroy this card.

Another cool card that needs to be toned down a bit. Maybe just make it half the damage dealt, rounded up. Would make it still a strong card without being too Overpowered. Possibly even make it so that the first hero who does it gets the heal and then the card is destroyed.

Overall, A really neat deck with a lot of potential for more flavor and utility. Sorry if any of my ideas and suggestions are pushy. Just wanted to give options and hopefully a helpful hand to a cool deck.

PS. If you do art for her, I vote her hair is red due to the blood nature of some of her powers. I know, campy, but that is what comic heroes are.
 
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Take Walker
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Re: Hero - Siphon
fleck1313 wrote:
What version does everyone like

I like the first version, but the second might be preferable, to minimize shenanigans.
 
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matthew malecki
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Re: Hero - Siphon
TakeWalker wrote:
fleck1313 wrote:
What version does everyone like

I like the first version, but the second might be preferable, to minimize shenanigans.


If we went with the first one shenanigans would definitely happen. I was looking at this and trying to see how it could be broken. I found it with collective healing! Other heroes deal damage give it to Siphon then she looses 4. next round another hero deals damage (4) given to Siphon etc etc etc. and shenanigans shenanigans shenanigans
 
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Michael Hunter
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Re: Hero - Siphon
I would vote for...

2x Vampiric Pulse (Ongoing, Limited, Healing): The first time a Hero Character deals damage in a turn, that Hero regains X HP. Where X = the total amount of damage dealt. At the start of your turn, destroy this card.

This is the weakest version (only first attack, can't be kept around) and it STIll seems really awesome - as a (sorta) one-shot that is going to be gaining most characters 3+ HP it is fantastic. It's also quite innovative (the heal based on damage done hasn't been done before as far as I know)
so it doesn't need other bells and whistles to make it interesting/cool.

As an example of potential craziness - imagine Fanatic on 1 HP using Wrathful Retribution, she deals 30 odd damage and heals herself back up to full!
 
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Matthew Bishop
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Re: Hero - Siphon
Some things to keep in mind:

- Sentinels doesn't have good "once per turn wording"; as far as I know, all this stuff will work once per turn per target.
- The above means your current Healing Knack is possibly better than the old one; an AoE heal on your turn hits each target once, each targets gets a +2. It looks like she usually gets at most 2 heals per ally per turn anyway, so a constant +1 would net around the same. Also, you removed its benefit to villains.
- Most teams will have a few heroes that gear up toward powerful, end-game hits. That's when you'll always save your Vampiric Pulse for. Even if only 2 heroes hit for 4 or 5, and the rest for 1 or 2 that round, that's huge swing from 1 card play. Throw in any heroes with huge dump attacks (Bunker, Tachyon, Wraith, Omnitron, Haka, Scholar...) and those heroes will likely fully heal in the late game.
- In general, anything that makes healing = damage dealt by others is going to be tricky because hero decks are balanced for such a wide range of damage-dealing. And healing on its own is already extremely powerful in Sentinels.
- While your intent is obvious, I don't think you can technically "redirect" healing. See Medico's Signature for possibly "more official" wording, if that's what you're aiming for.
- If I can math, it looks like you have 26 keyworded cards in the deck, and the only reason for the keyword is to minorly limit some searching/playing. Personally, I don't care for cards that say "pick almost anything out of your deck". It's not a limitation if almost anything is fair game.

I don't mean to be too negative, and I have not playtested the deck, so please take all comments as purely observational and (hopefully) constructive.
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Take Walker
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Re: Hero - Siphon
tosx wrote:
- Sentinels doesn't have good "once per turn wording"; as far as I know, all this stuff will work once per turn per target.

I am glad you said this, because this continuously tickles at the back of my mind when designing anything.
 
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matthew malecki
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Re: Hero - Siphon
tosx wrote:

- Most teams will have a few heroes that gear up toward powerful, end-game hits. That's when you'll always save your Vampiric Pulse for. Even if only 2 heroes hit for 4 or 5, and the rest for 1 or 2 that round, that's huge swing from 1 card play. Throw in any heroes with huge dump attacks (Bunker, Tachyon, Wraith, Omnitron, Haka, Scholar...) and those heroes will likely fully heal in the late game.


Changed Vampiric Pulse to
When a Hero Character deals damage, that Hero regains 1 HP (Max 5 per Hero). At the start of your turn, destroy this card.

This way it is a static 1 HP and for people that have multiple instances of damage on one attack(Fanatic)or have AOE (Tempest) they are gaining the most benefit.

tosx wrote:

- If I can math, it looks like you have 26 keyworded cards in the deck, and the only reason for the keyword is to minorly limit some searching/playing. Personally, I don't care for cards that say "pick almost anything out of your deck". It's not a limitation if almost anything is fair game.


Removed healing Keyword on most cards now only 12 cards have it.

tosx wrote:

- I don't mean to be too negative, and I have not playtested the deck, so please take all comments as purely observational and (hopefully) constructive.


I take all comments in the best possible way, Unless it is plainly obvious you are being a hater. Your input is very much welcomed as is everyone's. Thanks
 
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Joseph Guzman
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Re: Hero - Siphon
Best Vampiric Pulse design yet. Good without being too good that gives interesting choices to the heroes.

I do have some minor ideas and suggestions that I have thought of while looking your deck a second time with the changes.

4x Medic (Ongoing, Healing):
Power: each Hero Target regains 1 HP.

Good card and good change. I do feel it needs a couple tweaks. I think it is not necessary to have 4 in the deck. Also I think it should be limited as you have no way to play multiple powers and if another player does, using one of these after another in a turn would be pretty strong, especially if a combo goes off so you can do it consistently. Maybe increase Vampiric Blood from 2 to 3 as it is more balanced now.


2X Spirit of Many (Ongoing, Limited):
Soulthief’s Touch heals all other Hero Characters 1 HP.
Transfer Wounds heals all Hero Targets but Siphon

Good card, but it seems a bit limited for such a hard to come by card. No way to search for it and not much draw in the deck and by the time it comes out, the 2 cards it powers up may have already been played or will only been drawn here and there. So this card may be only meh. To give it a little more range and usefulness, I think you should add Life Spear to it. Life Spear deals each other hero 1 energy damage and increase X by that damage. A little pain to the group to make the spear hit harder. A give and take and still keeps the flavor of the card and character. Hopefully this will expand the cards usefulness a bit so it will not feel like a lesser play to other cards.
 
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Todd McCorkle
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Re: Hero - Siphon
TakeWalker wrote:
tosx wrote:
- Sentinels doesn't have good "once per turn wording"; as far as I know, all this stuff will work once per turn per target.

I am glad you said this, because this continuously tickles at the back of my mind when designing anything.

I've only been browsing this thread instead of thoroughly reading it, so forgive me for not knowing the specifics.

In Sentinels, most "once per turn" effects are start/end of turn. There's also a couple of examples of "the first time blah happens, do foo". Somewhat coincidently, just finished playing a game against progeny and just about all his scion cards say that.

Since the quoted bit mentioned targets. If you are going for an effect like Wraiths Combat Stance, but only want it to work once per turn, instead of once per turn per target, I would think rewording it "the first time any target deals damage ..." (instead of 'a target') should work.
 
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matthew malecki
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Re: Hero - Siphon
Jaggid88 wrote:

PS. If you do art for her, I vote her hair is red due to the blood nature of some of her powers. I know, campy, but that is what comic heroes are.


Already started on pics and yes she has red hair. Her energy "Blasts" are also red.
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Re: Hero - Siphon
Removed 2 Medics and 2 Life Currents

Added

2x Vitality Shield (Ongoing, Limited):
When Siphon would be dealt damage, you may redirect that damage to a Non-Hero Target, if you do discard 2 cards or destroy this card.

2x Channel Essence (One-Shot):
Each Hero other than Siphon discards the top card of their deck. Siphon draws x cards, Where x = the number of cards discarded this way.
 
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Michael Hunter
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Re: Hero - Siphon
Channel Essence makes sense in a vacuum, but in practice its drawing H-1 cards - games are already generally easier with more heroes, this makes it even more so!
 
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Re: Hero - Siphon
Adelphophage wrote:
Channel Essence makes sense in a vacuum, but in practice its drawing H-1 cards - games are already generally easier with more heroes, this makes it even more so!


Point taken will make a static 3 cards
 
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Joseph Farina
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Re: Hero - Siphon
I really enjoy the concept of this deck, life steal is pretty cool. I haven't play tested it at all, but I would just caution you with heroes that heal a lot; they can be way op. My suggestion is if you haven't already, playtest it with other heroes (both heroes with healing abilities and not) and see how it fares. There's also a post on this forum somewhere on the best ways to playlets which I would read because it's very helpful. It looks really cool, but just, from experience, sometimes healers even when you think you've toned them down a ton, can still be overpowered so good luck with that. Though, it seems pretty well done now.

Transfer wounds is so cool, as is vampiric pulse. The last thing I would like to mention is, increasing hp recovery is super powerful, and usually op. I just kind of worry about healing knack, especially in a deck where she's healing multiple targets at once, but that's just my two cents. It's a really cool idea!
 
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Re: Custom Hero: Siphon
I am removing Healing Knack and adding
2x Vitality to Essence (One-shot):
Siphon deals herself 2 Energy damage, then, Siphon draws x cards, Where x = twice the total amount of damage dealt.
 
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Take Walker
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Re: Custom Hero: Siphon
Should be damage taken, just in case there's DR in play. Not a bad idea, though.
 
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Dennison Milenkaya
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Re: Custom Hero: Siphon
Damage dealt and damage taken are the same amount. Since it is self-inflicted, it also refers to the same target.

Sentinels prefers "dealt" as its verb of choice.
 
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Michael Hunter
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Re: Custom Hero: Siphon
Deck is coming together

On Transfer Wounds, is it intentional that she can hit herself for 2, then heal herself for 4? Doesn't seem transferr-y.

Also, you might want to use something other than "healing" as your keyword? I can see it getting a bit confusing - a player gets Healing Knowledge and goes to get, say, Steal Life, causing a ten minute argument over what a "Healing" card is - it heals in the sense it increases HP, but doesn't in that it doesn't have the keyword. Maybe the keyword... Essence? Vitae? Soul? Drain?
 
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Re: Custom Hero: Siphon
Did not see the Transfer Wound dilemma. I will be adding but siphon to that. I will be changing the keyword as well I agree it will bring up arguments.
 
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Re: Custom Hero: Siphon
Played a couple of games this weekend and I am changing collective healing to


2x Collective Healing (Ongoing, Limited, Life):
When a Hero Character would regain HP you may redirect it to another Hero Character.
 
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