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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Product Quality rss

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Ricardo Macedo
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Hi all,

I would like to express my opinion about the quality of TI game and the way FFG is dealing with some issues.

First of all, my congratulations to FFG for the game components quality, they're very good , IMHO.

When the TI3ed came out, the player sheets had a little bug regarding the cost of pds, and the Xxcha ability (see errata).
There's also errata on:
- Direct Hit action card (with is still very powerfull).
- Technology cards.
- Political cards.
There were also some errata about some rules in the rulebook.
The rulebook also lack of information like "the order of pre-combat activities", or how some action and political cards should be resolved etc.
There was also infamous problem with the ISC, where the majoraty of the players were not satisfied with the gameplay(being force to choose ISC whenever possible doesn't give much freedom of choice to the players). I can't believe that game testers didn't report such.
Being myself a computer programer i'm accustomed when my product has some flaws to correct them as soon as possible and send a fix with no cost to the client.
That doesn't seem to be the Fantasy Flight Games policy.

Instead only some fixes came out with the Shattered Empires expansion others didn't. Expansions should be to expand the game, not to fix it.
There were only replacements for the Technology cards, Political cards, action cards and for de ISC.
Why weren't the race sheets replaced? The cost of mines and facilities should have been added to the sheets also.
There's an "Orange Technology Deck Printing Error", the FFG gladly offers a replacement (this is the correct way to deal with the issues IMO).
Why do we've now 2 rules books, to search for rules, and the old one still has errors. Couldn't they have sent a corrected replacement of the old rulebook with the new variants of the SE?
Since the Distant Suns variant was broken due to luck factor, the DS tokens should have been replaced with 2 new types of tokens for the new SE variant of Distant Suns variant? (game fixes seem to be called variants now)

Less important:
- Why don't the facilities have a plastic representation in the game board. Why there're soo few mines and facilities? A small plastic mine representation would also have been nice.
- Why do we've so limited number of units (only be able to produce two war suns?).
- Since the new strategy cards is to be played with fewer victory points, a new game track with fewer vp would have been nice.
- Thw SE rulebook states "If at any time any player draws an Action Card
or a Political Card that refers to a Strategy Card not being used in the current game, discard it and draw a new card.". This is not very friendly, at least they could have told us which cards we've to remove.

May i reminded that this is a expensive game TE3ed+SE costs around 125 EUR (this should more then 150 USD).
I like very much to play this game, but i expect to recieve some quality in product.

I would like to know, if any of you feel the same, and what do you think about a complaint?

Regards.
 
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Joe McKinley
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I don't feel the same way. Yes, it would be nice to have errata free reprintings of everything, but the cost would be prohibitive. You can go ahead and complain to FFG if you like, but I don't think most of your complaints are justified. It all comes down to providing a good product for a reasonable price.
 
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Sven
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Two points:

1) FFG are generally very good in providing replacements to clients, if something is actualy missing from the game or providing updated cards and rules in expansions.
I own TI3 without the expansion and I feel that the game is complete and without major flaws. The errata, faq, updated rules and variants can be downloaded for free from FFG and that´s all I need.
Demanding a full replacement for every owner of the game is (sorry) ridiculous, as the game is good as it is and because the cost would be unproportional to the benefit.
Before the internet, if an errata was done at all, it normaly was a page inlaid into the rulebook that said where changes had been made. No reprint for free for anyone.

2) I am always a bit uneasy about people who complain about companies on the internet. It always seems so cheap. If you have a problem with someone, take it out with them directly.
This is especially true if the complaint comes from new users...you never know were these people are coming from - If you throw enogh dirt, something will stick.
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Necessary Evil
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Quote:
I would like to know, if any of you feel the same, and what do you think about a complaint?


I think you are nit picking.

Asking for things like replacement race sheets for hte original game to be includedin the expansion is unrealistic. Since FFg does such a good job with the FAQ on its website this takes care of any rules issues.

Plastic facilities would junk up an already crowded board, having somthing to stick on the planet card works better and helps you not forget about that extra resource.

Unit limitations are a big part of the gameplay. more than 2 warsuns would make the game about building units, it currently is not, its about the objectives.

Actually a rule like discard the AC that refer to not in use strat cards is a very clear way to deal with that issue. It saves time on setup (not having to search) and make it clear what the rule is.


-M

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Scott Lewis
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I have to agree with the other posters here. I think what you are asking for may have been "nice to have", but unrealistic.

First, cost-wise, if you pay full retail for both the base set and SE, you are paying $80+$50 = $130. So I guess it must just be a higher price in Europe. Plus, if you know where to look, you can get it for cheaper than that. I think I paid about $100 total for both of them, give or take.


Anyway, reprinting race sheets would have been, in my opinion, a waste. Sure, having the PDS cost corrected would be nice, but after a few games, I don't even look at that. Plus, the nifty little unit reference cards work just as well for that.

I would not have liked facilities or mines to use plastic units. I use both of them only sparingly, and having those as plastic units would have only increased the cost of the expansion. No thanks.

As for multiple rulebooks, why? The expansion rulebook covers exactly what it needs to - the expansion rules. I don't think it needs to be "merged" into the main rulebook. The main book covers the basic mechanics of the game, the expansion covers the variations that the expansion provides. Reprinting the entire base rulebook (which would have only had minor changes) would have been another cost-increasing factor.


I think FFG's way of handling things is pretty good, to be honest. They listened to fan input (at least to some degree). They are pretty diligent with their FAQ, and between what we have, and the FAQ, I think that things work out nicely.
 
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Nick Szegedi
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I also agree... FFG sure does an excellent job with customer service with replacement parts and Faq's and such... not to mention they are always updating their website!

FFG is one of the fastest and well known game companies for a reason... they "out-do" themselves time and time again! (now, if only Tide of Iron would be here already-lol)
 
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Christopher Halbower
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I didn't see anyone else answer these questions so I will:

Why are there so few facilities and mines?

Because they are a limited commodity. For this reason, you may only have 2 warsuns total in the game. There can only be 8 of each type of facility in the game. You can only have 4 carriers in the game.

FFG said that the expansion would have no new plastic units. Thus, we all knew that there would be no plastic facilities and mines.

FFG did provide errata on the Direct Hit! and some of the tech cards.
 
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Sterling Babcock
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I posted a file that you can print on label paper that corrects all the errors in the original version. This works for me. Give it a look:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/fileinfo/17722

Sterling
 
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Ricardo Macedo
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Hi all,

The reason why i post my disconfort here and not complaint directly to FSS was because
i wanted to know if i was the only one not happy with the quality of such high cost game.
Thank you for your feedback.
Also, and very important, if i did complaint to the company alone i would be just an anoying guy, if 50 or 200 players complaint, the matter is taken more seriously.

I played again this weekend and ended up more then one time searching in 2 two rulebooks and faq for some answers.
I also use the preset maps printed pds.
I agree that the things i mentioned are a "nice to have" in the game and the game is still very playable.
But for the price i think we should have a "nice to have" game, and the FFG should try to correct the issues whenever possible.

Regarding other things mention:
- Having small plastic facilities, it does help so see on the board what planets you or your oponents have improved, besides having the facilities card, and if they were small they wouldn't crowd or cost much.

- Did no one in your play group ever asked: "what just two war suns?", or "why can't i built one more refinery?"

Thanks for the labels Sterling, i'll try that.

Best regards.
 
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