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Subject: Setup is atrociously bad rss

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Drift -
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So, first thing I did when I got the game, was to organise the cards by type.

Then I go through the setup for the first scenario. Fantasy Flight, in their infinite wisdom have decided the best way to tell you which cards to use, isn't by telling you the type of card it is, it's by giving you the card number.

So when it told me to set Lita aside I look through the encounter cards, since those are what it JUST asked me to put together, and where the ghoul it also asked me to set aside was from. I can't find her. I go through the others thinking maybe I missed one, Nope. I quickly check the character cards, nup. I eventually find her, apparently she's an asset, maybe that should have been mentioned Fantasy Flight?

Now I go to put together the two recommended starter decks. First card on the list, I check the character's first set of cards, not there, second set of cards, not there. Oh it's just a random generic card? Didn't think to mention that Fantasy Flight?

I'm sure the game is good, but there's only so much card fumbling I can do before I'm out. I play boardgames for fun, not so I can role-play a filing assistant.

What surprises me is how much this feels like 'my first card game'. Not only are these setup instructions unfathomably bad, the cards are so damn noisy. There are clear and concise ways to lay out information, and this isn't it. Cards of the same type have inconsistent layouts, I'm sure for a reason that is currently not obvious, and important information is contained in tiny little symbols, like those silly icons you have to fumble through to put together the encounter deck.

I'm sure this will get better after I've organised everything better, but right now, this is one of the worst setup experiences I've ever been through. Mostly because it could have all been avoided if a little thought was put into the display of information and setup instructions.
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David Spain
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I understand what you're saying but I had no issue for my first setup. Maybe it took a little while but I was so excited to play that it was fun. From now on just do what I do and set up the next scenario after your session so that next time you can pick up and play much quicker. I've organized my cards with a bag for each color, with each card in the bag alphabetical. Encounter deck or whatever it's called is sorted by symbol but no need for alphabetical. Basic weaknesses have their own bag but are not alphabetical. It's a lot of bags but it'll do until I get another Hobby Lobby box.
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Drift -
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Thanks for the advice, yeah I need to go through and sort everything out, will alleviate a lot of this.

I think I just got home late from work, bit tired, sat down to basically work the game out before tomorrow, and just got frustrated with all the card hunting, especially when it seems like it could be so much easier XD.
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Drift -
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Wait, just a sec, the back page of the scenario book... Do they actually not include the required pad of sheets to play the game? O.o

Photocopier required?
 
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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You can download it from their page and just print it out.
 
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Dan Ignat
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I also had trouble finding Lita; I initially thought a card is missing . But after I managed to understand what is all about, the setup was easier.

Anyway, as David said, I organized investigator cards by color and then alphabetically. Investigator specific cards went with neutral cards. The encounter deck is organized by symbol and alphabet. I use separators and the core set box, until I'll find something better
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House of Cards
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+1 on having difficulty finding Lita and pretty much everything else Dan had to say.

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Drift -
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/sigh

I'm out for tonight guys. This is insane. I got the game all set up, ready to work out how it plays. First hand, I suspected an Asset card stays in play, wanted to confirm and read up on card types, the 'how to play' guide just starts talking about them like you should know what's going on.

So, since the 'how to play' guide doesn't teach you 'how to play', I went to the reference guide. Found entry on Asset card, read it, still hasn't explained all the icons. I find the back of the book has info on all the card layouts.

However, the back of the book still doesn't explain all the cards. Instead of having this basic info listed out at the start of the how to play guide, you have to hunt through the reference guide to find each card, then cross reference with the back of the book to get the details.

This is definitely not something to tackle late at night, the whole thing is just frustrating, will get home from work early tomorrow and give it another spin

EDIT: It surprises me how badly put together this is considering how good a job FF did with Eldritch Horror... It almost feels like the instructions were an after thought.
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Daniel Whitford
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DriftRS wrote:
/sigh

I'm out for tonight guys. This is insane. I got the game all set up, ready to work out how it plays. First hand, I suspected an Asset card stays in play, wanted to confirm and read up on card types, the 'how to play' guide just starts talking about them like you should know what's going on.

So, since the 'how to play' guide doesn't teach you 'how to play', I went to the reference guide. Found entry on Asset card, read it, still hasn't explained all the icons. I find the back of the book has info on all the card layouts.

However, the back of the book still doesn't explain all the cards. Instead of having this basic info listed out at the start of the how to play guide, you have to hunt through the reference guide to find each card, then cross reference with the back of the book to get the details.

This is definitely not something to tackle late at night, the whole thing is just frustrating, will get home from work early tomorrow and give it another spin

EDIT: It surprises me how badly put together this is considering how good a job FF did with Eldritch Horror... It almost feels like the instructions were an after thought.

I understand that different people have different experiences, but I really don't recognise any part of what you're saying in how I first experienced the game (both in terms of setup and the rules).

On the asset point, the Learn to Play states on page 11:
Quote:
If the played card is an asset card, it is placed in the play
area of the investigator playing the card and remains in
play until an ability or game effect causes it to leave play.
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Christian Kløve
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I am really sorry that the setup process went off the rails for you. Personally, I had no problems setting up the game - I was aware of Lita being somewhere else, though. I thought the cards were sorted logically, both the Mythos and Player cards.

Could this have been partly caused by being tired before starting? I would also really recommend reading through the 'How to play' guide before starting, if you haven't done so already.

Hope next try goes better - if not, we're here for you!
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Sal Paradice
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DriftRS wrote:
/sigh

I'm out for tonight guys. This is insane. I got the game all set up, ready to work out how it plays. First hand, I suspected an Asset card stays in play, wanted to confirm and read up on card types, the 'how to play' guide just starts talking about them like you should know what's going on.

So, since the 'how to play' guide doesn't teach you 'how to play', I went to the reference guide. Found entry on Asset card, read it, still hasn't explained all the icons. I find the back of the book has info on all the card layouts.

However, the back of the book still doesn't explain all the cards. Instead of having this basic info listed out at the start of the how to play guide, you have to hunt through the reference guide to find each card, then cross reference with the back of the book to get the details.

This is definitely not something to tackle late at night, the whole thing is just frustrating, will get home from work early tomorrow and give it another spin

EDIT: It surprises me how badly put together this is considering how good a job FF did with Eldritch Horror... It almost feels like the instructions were an after thought.


If its any consolation, I had almost the exact same confusing experience with set-up and trying to get a first play in - and that was reading everything, watching videos, etc. I still turn to Discord for quick questions, which has been great, BTW. That's a super helpful and nonjudgemental community, like 95% of the users here. I loved your comment about filing. I picked this up because I didn't want to prep to play (LOTR LCG, I'm looking at you), but to actually just play.

After I finally puzzled out the organization of cards and sorted them (I repurposed my Warhammer LCG Broken Token Organizer) the set-up and play time is 5 minutes. BUT, boy, was I frustrated. I noted that on these same forums and got blasted for it, so I wanted to be sure to reiterate as others have here that you are not alone. However, it really does get pretty simply once you get the cards sorted.

Also, I'm not convinced there is a good rulebook solution out there for any game. You rarely hear someone say - the rulebook is great! I think its the nature of trying to write for widely different learning and experience styles.
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Drift -
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Kløve wrote:


Could this have been partly caused by being tired before starting? I would also really recommend reading through the 'How to play' guide before starting, if you haven't done so already.


It might be! And thanks, bitching about it helps relieve the frustration

I'll have to give it another go tomorrow, hopefully a little earlier than I did tonight!
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Drift -
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salparadice1 wrote:

If its any consolation, I had almost the exact same confusing experience with set-up and trying to get a first play in


Glad to hear it's not just me, and more importantly, that you managed to resolve it all. There's hope for me yet!
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David Spain
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I have had several questions when playing g the game but my answers were easily found in one of the two books. I have a bit of experience with LOTR LCG maybe that helps. I've really found this game to be quite easy rules-wise.
 
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mathew rynich
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I thought this was one of the best set of rules I've read yet from the company. I'm really surprised at everything you are saying.

That said I noticed you said you organized your cards before setting up and that might be part of the difference in our experiences. If I recall correctly the order they were in the pack corresponds to the setup instructions, which is why I assume they reference card order in the Learn To Play rules. I'm surprised FFG doesn't have a learn to play video yet on their youtube channel. I think that would have greatly helped the OP if they could just have a link in the rules to a video to see the setup.

The Learn To Play rules tell you how to setup your first game, but the campaign guide also does that in the format you should expect for all future releases. It doesn't reference card number. Instead it references the actually encounter sets you need by their symbol and/or card name, which is more noticeable.

I hope that clarifies why the setup rules are written they way they are in the Learn To Play rules. I would caution that the Rule Reference is a reference to answer specific rules questions so learning to play for the first time off of that book will be probably a slog considering it's arranged alphabetically. They do have an index in there to help reference specific rules easier though.

Sorry you had so much trouble. I didn't but in fairness I've played the majority of FFG's LCGs now over the years so I know these LCG designers and how they write. Therefore my experience isn't a fair comparison.
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Rayne Smith
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I can understand the confusion of not finding Lita. Though, I noticed she was missing whenever I was looking for her card number to add to the encounter deck, before the setting aside part. I don't think she was intentionally separated like that. My guess is she was supposed to be in numerical order like the rest of the cards.

I don't understand the complaint about the rulebook (though you aren't the only one). After I finished the Learn to Play book, I didn't have any trouble picking up the game, I thought it was a well done rulebook.
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Peter Loftus
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I agree. Splitting it between the How to Play and Scenario books doesn't help.

Overall, setting up and learning this game was not a pleasurable experience at all and the rules continue to annoy and frustrate me.

In particular, how to use skill and asset cards is really unclear.

Add to that the poor combat and skill checking mechanisms and the fun count drops even lower...
 
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Joseph West
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It is very clear to me the people who are having trouble with the setup must be pulling the auto fail out of the bag. You need to throw everything back in the box and try your skill check again.

I had a few struggles with initial setup but got through everything eventually, and the game play has been smooth ever since. I guess I'm hitting my skill checks after a rough first one.
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Danwarr
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DriftRS wrote:
So, first thing I did when I got the game, was to organise the cards by type.


You do realize that the cards were already organized out of the box right?
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Pauli Vinni
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Yep, it was really easy after long Lotr experience where decks Are build quite similar way, but those set icons Are really small in this game so if you don't know to look for them it may be much harder to recognice those individual sets among each others.
 
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Danwarr
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DriftRS wrote:
/sigh

I'm out for tonight guys. This is insane. I got the game all set up, ready to work out how it plays. First hand, I suspected an Asset card stays in play, wanted to confirm and read up on card types, the 'how to play' guide just starts talking about them like you should know what's going on.

So, since the 'how to play' guide doesn't teach you 'how to play', I went to the reference guide. Found entry on Asset card, read it, still hasn't explained all the icons. I find the back of the book has info on all the card layouts.


Did you even read the "Learn to Play"?

Quote:
pg 11 Play

When an investigator uses this action, that investigator
selects an asset or event card in his or her hand, pays
its resource cost, and plays it. A card’s resource cost
and cardtype are found in its upper left corner.
To pay a resource cost, the investigator playing the card
must move a number of resources equal to the cost from
his or her resource pool to the general token pool.

The rules for playing each cardtype are as follows:

If the played card is an event card, its effects are resolved
and it is then placed in its owner’s discard pile.

If the played card is an asset card, it is placed in the play
area of the investigator playing the card and remains in
play until an ability or game effect causes it to leave play.

Skill cards are not played. For their abilities and
icons to be used, these cards must be committed
to a skill test from a player’s hand (see page 8).

Cards with the fast keyword do not cost an action to play
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Le Roux Van Der Vyver
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Hey Drift,

Some people seem to think that you are not able to read a manual. Try watching a runthrough on youtube to get a basic understanding. The Learn to Play should then just fill in the holes. Once you get the basics it all falls into place pretty fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjkMVLgouts&t=1205s

Edit: added link
 
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mfl134
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Danwarr wrote:
DriftRS wrote:
So, first thing I did when I got the game, was to organise the cards by type.


You do realize that the cards were already organized out of the box right?


They weren't organized by number x/x, which to me made more sense. they were mostly organized like that but diverged when trying to keep cards next to other cards with the same card backs (which probably makes printing the cards cheaper?)
 
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Geir Atle Hegsvold
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DriftRS wrote:
Wait, just a sec, the back page of the scenario book... Do they actually not include the required pad of sheets to play the game? O.o

Photocopier required?


Yeah... I was kinda hoping for a pad of sheets too, but I found that recording with comments directly in the PDF and saving each campaign in a different PDF works quite well.
 
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Scott Hill
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mfl134 wrote:
Danwarr wrote:
DriftRS wrote:
So, first thing I did when I got the game, was to organise the cards by type.


You do realize that the cards were already organized out of the box right?


They weren't organized by number x/x, which to me made more sense. they were mostly organized like that but diverged when trying to keep cards next to other cards with the same card backs (which probably makes printing the cards cheaper?)

Yes, they were.

There was one card that was out of place - Lita - and once you found her it was obvious where she went.

On the wider point, I found this game incredibly easy to setup and learn to play.

In terms of setup you just follow the numbered steps in the Learn to Play book.

Though, in terms of learning the rules, I have to admit I had watched several videos before getting the game.
 
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