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Subject: Case 2: Initial Clues rss

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Evan Dunn
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"...to excel above the common rate, in frivolous things, is nothing graceful in a man of quality and honor." - Michel de Montaigne
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We were playing case 2 the other night, and encountered something odd.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
In the setup for the case, there's the guard with no blood or skin. Then they say there were no tire tracks in the mud, which means the culprit probably didn't have his own car. Perhaps he ordered a taxi? This is very odd because 1. A taxi would make tire tracks, and 2. Wouldn't a taxi take note of someone who was carrying a lot of flayed skin?


So of course my group didn't go that way, and of course when we were out of logical options, we did, and sure enough going that way led us in the right direction. I felt like we missed out on a lot of interesting parts of the case due to the timer running out, as a result of this initial logical decision.

Anyone else have this, or feel this way?
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Nick McClure
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Yeah we had kind of a similar experience:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
We actually did follow the taxi lead, but one person in our group (who was not the lead investigator at the time) thought the whole thing was a red herring for the same reason that you described. Even though it turned out to give us additional clues to follow, the taxi really didn't have anything to do with the murder (unless we missed something). We just got lucky that it sent us in the right direction because of something totally unrelated to taxis.

I feel like that's happened a few times already (I've only done the first two cases). It seems like solving the cases has been more about luck than deduction, which is disappointing to me. I have to say that I really enjoy the experience of this game, and I love the story that the game tells, but at the end of both of the first two cases I didn't feel much like a detective. It's as if the game is telling me, "visit the taxi company," instead of helping me come up with that on my own.
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Andrew Walmsley
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quietcorn wrote:
We were playing case 2 the other night, and encountered something odd.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
In the setup for the case, there's the guard with no blood or skin. Then they say there were no tire tracks in the mud, which means the culprit probably didn't have his own car. Perhaps he ordered a taxi? This is very odd because 1. A taxi would make tire tracks, and 2. Wouldn't a taxi take note of someone who was carrying a lot of flayed skin?


So of course my group didn't go that way, and of course when we were out of logical options, we did, and sure enough going that way led us in the right direction. I felt like we missed out on a lot of interesting parts of the case due to the timer running out, as a result of this initial logical decision.

Anyone else have this, or feel this way?

Completely agree, thought the reasoning behind this was ridiculous, and the opposite of reasoned, logical thinking. Would like the designers to explain to me how they thought this made sense? Is going to effect me going forward to case 3 as I'm just gong to assume there's no point making reasonable assumptions and will have to visit all early suggestions otherwise the case may be a write off like case 2. Enjoyed case 1 as linear as it was but have had to lower my score after this one.
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Andrew Walmsley
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CelestialMonkey wrote:
Yeah we had kind of a similar experience:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
We actually did follow the taxi lead, but one person in our group (who was not the lead investigator at the time) thought the whole thing was a red herring for the same reason that you described. Even though it turned out to give us additional clues to follow, the taxi really didn't have anything to do with the murder (unless we missed something). We just got lucky that it sent us in the right direction because of something totally unrelated to taxis.

I feel like that's happened a few times already (I've only done the first two cases). It seems like solving the cases has been more about luck than deduction, which is disappointing to me. I have to say that I really enjoy the experience of this game, and I love the story that the game tells, but at the end of both of the first two cases I didn't feel much like a detective. It's as if the game is telling me, "visit the taxi company," instead of helping me come up with that on my own.

May I ask if you have played Sherlock Holmes and if you thought the deduction aspect of that was much better in comparison to this?
 
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tigerwalms wrote:
quietcorn wrote:
We were playing case 2 the other night, and encountered something odd.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
In the setup for the case, there's the guard with no blood or skin. Then they say there were no tire tracks in the mud, which means the culprit probably didn't have his own car. Perhaps he ordered a taxi? This is very odd because 1. A taxi would make tire tracks, and 2. Wouldn't a taxi take note of someone who was carrying a lot of flayed skin?


So of course my group didn't go that way, and of course when we were out of logical options, we did, and sure enough going that way led us in the right direction. I felt like we missed out on a lot of interesting parts of the case due to the timer running out, as a result of this initial logical decision.

Anyone else have this, or feel this way?

Completely agree, thought the reasoning behind this was ridiculous, and the opposite of reasoned, logical thinking. Would like the designers to explain to me how they thought this made sense? Is going to effect me going forward to case 3 as I'm just gong to assume there's no point making reasonable assumptions and will have to visit all early suggestions otherwise the case may be a write off like case 2. Enjoyed case 1 as linear as it was but have had to lower my score after this one.


We reasoned it this way:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The attacker used a taxi to get around town but had the car stop a few blocks from library.
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Nicola Zee
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As has already being pointed out, there is an issue in that what should be a red herring is not.

Major spoilers follow:

Spoiler (click to reveal)

The vampire could have decided to have a taxi parked a few blocks away but it does not explain why the taxi driver did not notice his passenger was covered in blood and carrying a large bloody package of human skin. Of course, it's possible the vampire hypnotised the driver but then (if that's the case) why bother to have the driver park a couple of blocks away. It is clear that the vampire flew and did not take a taxi because none of the taxi drivers remembered anything about the vampire.

The implication of the story is the vampire did not need to walk because he flew.

So the bit about the taxi should be a red herring but it is (in fact) critical.

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Nicola Zee wrote:
As has already being pointed out, there is an issue in that what should be a red herring is not.

Major spoilers follow:

Spoiler (click to reveal)

The vampire could have decided to have a taxi parked a few blocks away but it does not explain why the taxi driver did not notice his passenger was covered in blood and carrying a large bloody package of human skin. Of course, it's possible the vampire hypnotised the driver but then (if that's the case) why bother to have the driver park a couple of blocks away. It is clear that the vampire flew and did not take a taxi because none of the taxi drivers remembered anything about the vampire.

The implication of the story is the vampire did not need to walk because he flew.

So the bit about the taxi should be a red herring but it is (in fact) critical.



It made sense to us.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The first place we visited was The Criminalologist. He states that the attacker either flew or took a cab. We figured flying was the red herring so we checked out the Cab Dispatcher. (We had no idea it was a vampire at that time). Later we learn from Patty McCullough at the Arkham Sanitarium that the monster is capable of possessing and/or controlling people. So it's really not a reach that the vampire takes cabs and "erases" the memories of drivers or has his thralls take cabs and do his dirty work. Both are quite fitting with the vampire trope.

Why do you say it's clear the vampire flew? We only saw one reference to the attacker flying and at the time we discounted it as a red herring.
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Andrew Walmsley
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Budapest wrote:
It made sense to us.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The first place we visited was The Criminalologist. He states that the attacker either flew or took a cab. We figured flying was the red herring so we checked out the Cab Dispatcher. (We had no idea it was a vampire at that time). Later we learn from Patty McCullough at the Arkham Sanitarium that the monster is capable of possessing and/or controlling people. So it's really not a reach that the vampire takes cabs and "erases" the memories of drivers or has his thralls take cabs and do his dirty work. Both are quite fitting with the vampire trope.

Why do you say it's clear the vampire flew? We only saw one reference to the attacker flying and at the time we discounted it as a red herring.

Then explain how
Spoiler (click to reveal)
It's Lovecraft, you have to assume it's going to be monsters etc, I bet every story in this has a beast/monster of some type in. It's commonplace, and saying there were no tyre marks sounded to me that this is was they were hinting at, especially the clue about how vampires can shapeshift and become bats or even mist.

Regardless of that, answer me how in any way a taxi should have been mentioned? There were no tyre tracks, taxis have wheels and thus cause tyre tracks. Now if you're saying he walked to somewhere for a taxi, how's that any different to walking where he parked? There was no reason anyone at all should have suggested taxi, at best it would have been a complete guess, and the fact he's be carrying skin would also suggest you wouldn't do that by taxi.
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Nicola Zee
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Budapest wrote:
Nicola Zee wrote:
As has already being pointed out, there is an issue in that what should be a red herring is not.

Major spoilers follow:

Spoiler (click to reveal)

The vampire could have decided to have a taxi parked a few blocks away but it does not explain why the taxi driver did not notice his passenger was covered in blood and carrying a large bloody package of human skin. Of course, it's possible the vampire hypnotised the driver but then (if that's the case) why bother to have the driver park a couple of blocks away. It is clear that the vampire flew and did not take a taxi because none of the taxi drivers remembered anything about the vampire.

The implication of the story is the vampire did not need to walk because he flew.

So the bit about the taxi should be a red herring but it is (in fact) critical.



It made sense to us.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The first place we visited was The Criminalologist. He states that the attacker either flew or took a cab. We figured flying was the red herring so we checked out the Cab Dispatcher. (We had no idea it was a vampire at that time). Later we learn from Patty McCullough at the Arkham Sanitarium that the monster is capable of possessing and/or controlling people. So it's really not a reach that the vampire takes cabs and "erases" the memories of drivers or has his thralls take cabs and do his dirty work. Both are quite fitting with the vampire trope.

Why do you say it's clear the vampire flew? We only saw one reference to the attacker flying and at the time we discounted it as a red herring.

OK if you are right about your following question and it is a red herring:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
We only saw one reference to the attacker flying and at the time we discounted it as a red herring.

I repeat my original question - but hopefully making the question a bit clearer.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
If the taxi driver was under the vampire's control and the vampire then erased his memory, why did the vampire not have the driver park his taxi closer to the entrance and save himself a long walk carrying a large amount of human skin covered in blood? Presumably not only did the vampire erase the driver's memories but he also got him to clean up his cab of spilt blood without anyone noticing. The implication (at least to me) is that he did not use a taxi at all - especially as none of the taxi drivers remembered even a hint of something odd happening.


[Added]
Spoiler (click to reveal)
If the vampire "used a taxi to get around town but had the car stop a few blocks from library", why did the vampire have the car stop a few blocks from the library? Why not just have the car stop at the library?
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Richard Pickman
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My thoughts about this:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Investigations often come down to "lucky breaks." Even though it doesn't seem that the killer really took a cab, Dr. Corbett's suggestion leads you to Arlo Hoppin, who helps you advance your investigation.
 
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Andrew Walmsley
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I see the games designers ('Airborne XO' and 'willok') are on these forums, I'd appreciate if I could get your view on this and explain how the points made here are incorrect?
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Tommi Ketonen
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We found this same clue to be problematic as well, but got stuck EVEN when we followed it:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
As others pointed out, the fact that a taxi was mentioned at all, is just weird. No tire tracks = no car. If the culprit took a cab and left it a bit earlier, they could have just as well had their own car. We reasoned that if someone was going to follow up on the taxi lead, they would do so only for metagame reasons - taxi was mentioned, and it was also featured in the news -> maybe there's something in there.

And that's also the reason why we visited the cab company. However, the clue there made even less sense: The driver talked about the silver twilight, and at that point in our investigation, they had NOTHING to do with the case: We had a monster who tried to break into the library. FURTHER, the driver describes the twilight members as "in a whirl", literally: "in a state of confusion." Thus, a faction that doesn't seem to have anything to do with this case, seem to be confused about something. We reasoned that
1. Either they had a side-plot that we could follow up on OR
2. it was related to the plot but as they seemed confused, it would be unlikely that they'd be able to provide much info, especially since our contact didn't even know that much about their dealings (as evidenced in the previous case).
In our opinion, the string of clues to follow here, to get to a source which, I think, would have been enough to solve most of the case on itself, was very, very confusing and poorly constructed. Was really disapointed in case 2 for this reason.


As a side-note: Case 3 was really, really, really good except for one semi-important name missing from the directory.
 
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