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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Multiple uses of asset cards rss

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jan w
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Question about asset cards such as Physical Training:

Can you sink multiple resources into the card to get +2, +3? Or is it limited to a single +1?

Similar question about weapons such as Knife, and most gun cards that require an action to activate:
can you activate such a card multiple times on your turn? (so you've got 3 actions, could you use your weapon 3 times - given that you have the ammo?)

Thanks!
 
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Michael Wester
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Yes to both (canmt look up the specific sections in rules reference)

Do keep in mind that you can only use one asset with a FIGHT action per action (so you can't couple the knife and gun for example for 1 super action)
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Nuno Actas
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I don't have the cards with me right now but...

Physical Training: yes you can spend all your resources if you like

Guns: if you have 3 actions and 3 tokens you can attack 3 times but they individual actions and you need to test the attacks one after the other
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Aaron Scott
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What about something like Pickpocket?

Can I have two in play?
When I evade, can I draw two cards?

Can I have two Old Lore tomes in play and exhaust both on my turn?
 
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MC Shudde M'ell
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2 Pickpockets would let you draw two cards when you evade (and then both would be Exhausted).

2 Old Lore Tomes would allow you to exhaust both, but that would cost two Actions (the Arrow symbol means Action).
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Scott Hill
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Esgaldil wrote:
2 Pickpockets would let you draw two cards when you evade (and then both would be Exhausted).

Can you cite a Rules Reference entry that supports that, Emily?

In most games that have similar reactive ability mechanics, you can only react to an event once, because once one reaction resolves any further reactions would have to be reacting to the first reaction, not the original event.

But I can't find anything in the Rules Reference to support either interpretation.
 
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Elijah
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This came up for us tonight as well.

So, as a triggered ability, you can spend as many resources as you want to increase the ability by +1?

Where is this in the rules? I couldn't find anything so we ruled it as no, you can only spend 1 resource and I gained +1 to combat. Sort of sucked as I had a nice resource pool!
 
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Jan Probst
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Esgaldil wrote:
2 Pickpockets would let you draw two cards when you evade (and then both would be Exhausted).

Can you cite a Rules Reference entry that supports that, Emily?

In most games that have similar reactive ability mechanics, you can only react to an event once, because once one reaction resolves any further reactions would have to be reacting to the first reaction, not the original event.

But I can't find anything in the Rules Reference to support either interpretation.

Page 20 RRG, "Triggering Conditions"
Quote:
If multiple instances of the same ability are eligible
to initiate, each instance may be used once.


Also maybe relevant from the cardgamedb faq that you could for example Evade, Pickpocket drawing a close call, then use that Close Call to react to the original evade. (Ie, reactions pretty much work exactly like in Lotr, any reactions to the same thing go in the order of your choice)


Also related: even if you react to something else (for example, your reaction), this does not close the original reaction window, as asked by me over the weekend:
Quote:
> Rules Question:
> Hi, I have a question about timing of reaction-type abilities/events, specifically in situations where there are multiple "nested" triggering conditions.
Abstract example: Trigger A happens. I use ability B to react to trigger A. I use Ability C to react to ability/trigger B. Can I go back and still react to trigger A, or is that opportunity passed by reacting to something else unrelated?
Concrete example: Wendy has her amulet out. Wendy evades an enemy. (trigger A) Wendy uses Close Call on the enemy. (ability/trigger B) "After" the ability resolves, the amulet Forces her to put the card under the deck. (ability C) Can she still react more to A, or can't she? (For example to Pickpocket if for Reasons she did not want to do it before the Close Call, or to play another Close Call/Sneak Attack if she still has targets due to Cunning Distraction, etc)
I've seen the clarification about Pickpocket and Close Call on cardgamedb that multiple reactions to the *same* trigger can be done in whatever order desired (pretty much like Responses in Lotr), but this situation seems to be something else, so I'd like some help.

Quote:
Hi Jan,

Great question! Using a reaction does not close the opportunity to use other reactions to the same trigger, even if that first reaction leads to several ‘nested’ reactions as you describe. If you do ability A, and then you react to A with ability B, and then react to ability B with ability C, you can still go back and react to ability A again (once everybody has finished reacting to C and B).

So, in your example, you can absolutely still use pickpocket after evading the enemy, using close call, etc.

Hope that helps!
------------------------------------------------
Matthew Newman
Associate LCG Designer
Fantasy Flight Games
mnewman@fantasyflightgames.com

Edit: Yes, technical foul in that effect C in my concrete example is forced, not reaction. This was done for clarity and brevity, I didn't want to write up some wall of text of an empty deck+Cunning Distraction+Pickpockets inbetween + 3xClose Call multikill combo or such. Luckily Matthew got what I was getting at and answered for reactions in general (as per my abstract example), not just forced effects in particular.
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Jan Probst
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derp wrote:
This came up for us tonight as well.

So, as a triggered ability, you can spend as many resources as you want to increase the ability by +1?

Where is this in the rules? I couldn't find anything so we ruled it as no, you can only spend 1 resource and I gained +1 to combat. Sort of sucked as I had a nice resource pool!
It can probably be found somewhere in the rules I am too lazy to dig up now, but it's mainly found on the card, by not stating a limit.
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Scott Hill
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Thanks Jan.

Somehow missed that bit from the Rules Reference.
 
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Elijah
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Weltenreiter wrote:
derp wrote:
This came up for us tonight as well.

So, as a triggered ability, you can spend as many resources as you want to increase the ability by +1?

Where is this in the rules? I couldn't find anything so we ruled it as no, you can only spend 1 resource and I gained +1 to combat. Sort of sucked as I had a nice resource pool!
It can probably be found somewhere in the rules I am too lazy to dig up now, but it's mainly found on the card, by not stating a limit.


That's what I said! Since there isn't a explicit indication of only using it once I should be able to use it per my resources. Alas, I was overruled but I feel vindicated

Thank you!
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MC Shudde M'ell
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derp wrote:
That's what I said! Since there isn't a explicit indication of only using it once I should be able to use it per my resources. Alas, I was overruled but I feel vindicated

Thank you!


It can be helpful to bear in mind that some cards have either limited Ammo (/Spells/whatever) or an Exhaust mechanic. These are very clearly used to limit the use of those Cards. "Once per turn" is pretty explicitly what Exhaust is for, so not seeing that is a clear indication that the limit is not implied.
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Elijah
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Right.



This was my card; how should it be interpreted?

1) As a free triggered ability, spend 1 resource. You get +1 combat for this skill test. You can only do this once.

2) As a free triggered ability, spend as many resources as you'd like. For each resource spent this way, gain +1 combat for this skill test.

The way I read the rules for triggered abilities (http://lotr-lcg-quest-companion.com/ahrulebook.html#rule293), it would be item 2, not item 1. I was overruled with the thought that, it doesn't say you can do it more than once and abilities in general are a single task.

Am I missing something in the rules that clearly state how this should be interpreted?
 
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jan w
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Number 2)

This is the same situation as the higher mentioned "physical training" card: you can spend as many resources as you can/want to.


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Elijah
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kronik wrote:
Number 2)
This is the same situation as the higher mentioned "physical training" card: you can spend as many resources as you can/want to.

Thanks kronik. Where in the rules does it explain this? That you can spend as much as you'd like, and per X, gain the ability?

I understand it's not limited per the card text, but assuming you are new to this game and picked it up, how would you confirm via the rules the reading is item 2?
 
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jan w
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I don't have the rules here, but other users confirmed this higher up in the thread for a different card (but same situation: spending multiple resources on free action abilities)
 
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Elijah
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kronik wrote:
I don't have the rules here,

http://lotr-lcg-quest-companion.com/ahrulebook.html


The only thing I see is,

"If the ability has one or more prerequisites (costs and/or conditions), these are listed in text immediately following the icon. A player must always meet the prerequisites of a triggered ability in order to trigger that ability."

http://lotr-lcg-quest-companion.com/ahrulebook.html#rule293

I'm not seeing much in the way where you can interpret it as spend X, per spent, gain X. It does say you have to meet the prereq in order to trigger the ability but it doesn't indicate you can perform that as many times as you'd like - or at least I'm not seeing it.

Not trying to argue here just trying to find the specific rule wording.
 
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Steve Scothern
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What it is actually allowing you to do is spend a 'free' action to convert 1 resource into a single +1 bonus. BUT it does not exhaust, or use up an action, so are free to immediately do the exact same thing again. The net effect is exactly the same as spending X resources to get +X.

It is limited by the number of resources you have, which prevents it being OP.

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Jan Probst
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Check out the "Limits" entry in the RRG. One of those (probably "once per skill test") surely would be on the card if there was supposed to be any limit on spending.
 
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Elijah
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scotherns wrote:
What it is actually allowing you to do is spend a 'free' action to convert 1 resource into a single +1 bonus.

Right.

We know the triggered ability is "free". This is in the rule book and this just means it doesn't cost an action.

We know for this card, you are spending a resource and gaining +1 combat since it's on the card.


scotherns wrote:
BUT it does not exhaust, or use up an action, so are free to immediately do the exact same thing again.

Based on the rule book alone, where does it state you can invoke a triggered ability as many times as you'd like...where does it discuss limits of triggered abilities?

It seems to me this interpretation is implied by the omission of such a rule. Right?
 
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Elijah
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Weltenreiter wrote:
Check out the "Limits" entry in the RRG. One of those (probably "once per skill test") surely would be on the card if there was supposed to be any limit on spending.

Limits only has 3 entries.

"Limit X per [period]"
"Limit X per [card/game element]"
"Max X per [period]"

None of these touch on triggered ability limits.
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Steve Scothern
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derp wrote:

Based on the rule book alone, where does it state you can invoke a triggered ability as many times as you'd like...where does it discuss limits of triggered abilities?

It seems to me this interpretation is implied by the omission of such a rule. Right?


It doesnt explicitly state this, quite true. If you are in a 'Player Window' you can play 'free' actions (providing you meet any prerequisites). Nothing on these cards tells you there is a limit, and they do not exhaust, and they do not have 'charges'. After using them, they are exactly as they were before. Nothing indicates you can't use them again, and they still meet all the conditions in the rule book for using such actions (still in a player window, meeting all prerequistes).

Its not because nothing says you cant - its more that they still meet all the requirements for using them - so you can.
 
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Elijah
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Ok, so by rule book omission and some deductive logic, you can. That'll work. Too bad the wording on the cards wasn't a little more clear.

For example,

Spend X resources. For this skill test, you gain +1 combat for each resource spent.
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marco nwitdg
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derp wrote:
Ok, so by rule book omission and some deductive logic, you can. That'll work. Too bad the wording on the cards wasn't a little more clear.

For example,

Spend X resources. For this skill test, you gain +1 combat for each resource spent.


Exactly. And by the Grim Rule, I would say the it is not permitted to spend X to gain X.
It's harsh, it's Arkham!... unless the FAQ will clarify it in a more "gentle" way.

Just my 2 €cent
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Scott Dockery
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derp wrote:
Based on the rule book alone, where does it state you can invoke a triggered ability as many times as you'd like...where does it discuss limits of triggered abilities?

It seems to me this interpretation is implied by the omission of such a rule. Right?


Exactly. We already have a category for triggered abilities that can only be triggered once per situation: Reaction triggers.
 
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