frida lavassani
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If you happen to own Runewars and its expansion Runewars: Banners of War have you played a Battlelore session with the figures from Runewars ?

Do you think if we can work together we can create custom made cards for
Elves even Orcs and Dwarves ?

I realize the pieces are much smaller but all we would need are cards texts.

Or is this a hopeless effort and we should focus our attention on FFG new star on the rise Runewars Miniatures Game
if FFG thinks they can compete with all other miniature games currently published by competitions FFG is out to lunch. They have no chance.


I am sick and tired of FFG products start off with taking our money and give us the impression of new developments and after everything comes to a sudden stop.

With battlelore FFG can not blame Games workshop or developers of warcraft as Terrinoth is their product.
is the sales are not supporting further Battlelore products what makes them think the miniature game will bring positive results ?

Why do not they finish what they start?




 
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Scott Lewis
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The Moon wrote:
Why do not they finish what they start?

I don't know FFG's internals, but I think the answer is almost certainly "because sales weren't strong enough to keep development going."

It's a cool game, and I'll also be sad if there are no more expansions (which unfortunately seems likely), but I don't think it's about losing interest as much as it is about it not being profitable enough. I'm sure BattleLore is not cheap to produce, and so if they aren't selling enough to make it worthwhile, they aren't going to keep making it.
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Mark McG
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The Moon wrote:

I am sick and tired of FFG products start off with taking our money and give us the impression of new developments and after everything comes to a

Why do not they finish what they start?


I'm sick of the FFG sales model that sells games with 'expansions' that are available almost at the same time as the game ships. Essentially they have just divided up the original game into sub-portions.

Generally I won't buy FFG games new, in part because of the 'expansion' mania, and in particular because the quality of some subsequent expansions is questionable. In BattleLore 1st ed, there is a noticable difference between the quality of the thought that has gone into the Days of Wonder expansions compared to the later FFG expansions (which someyimes recycled DOW expansion items). Playtesting the new expansuion to integrate with the game seems almost non-existant.

Similarly Descent 1st ed. suffered as the expansions deteriorated toward the end.

So I think there is a philosophy in FFG that expansion are there simply to milk the cow and require no effort or thought, and they then blame the sales of expansions as reason to discontinue. Maybe this is the 21C business model, but I feel FFG sell a hype, rather than a quality product, and the reliance of expansions to fill out their profits rather than be thoughtful products has essentially driven me away from purchasing new FFG products.
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Andy Leber
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Minedog3 wrote:

I'm sick of the FFG sales model that sells games with 'expansions' that are available almost at the same time as the game ships. Essentially they have just divided up the original game into sub-portions.


I've never really understood how people can make blanket statements like this though. People often try to in videogames too, regarding expansions.

For both video and boardgames, I don't see how the date of manufacture has anything to do with whether or not it should be included in the base. It's purely a matter of how much content you're getting in the original, and what was in the budget of the original project. It has to be looked at on a case by case basis.

It's entirely possible something can be a complete, full game, and the extras would never have happened unless the company knew they were able to account for charging separate for it. Whether it's manufactured at the same time, or after the fact seems like little more than a psychological barrier for some consumers, in my opinion.

I think it all comes down to whether or not you're getting a good experience in the core set. Nothing else sold separately should change that.

Hope this didn't come off as too combative or anything, btw. Just sharing my personal thoughts on the issue.

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The Moon wrote:

Or is this a hopeless effort and we should focus our attention on FFG new star on the rise Runewars Miniatures Game
if FFG thinks they can compete with all other miniature games currently published by competitions FFG is out to lunch. They have no chance.


I don't know if they can compete or not but I, for one, will most likely never play RMG. Measurement sticks are already an annoyance for me, and on top of that they added those ugly and cumbersome dials... why not using the good old, minimally intrusive, chits? It's funny to hear how they guy presenting RMG at gencon after listing the different mechanics defines the game "a weird combination of all that" (at around 0:30 see this thread). I didn't watch the entire video but judging on what I've seen, I tend to agree.

Concerning custom made armies, there are thread on the FFG website with proposals for Elfs and Goblin and Dwarves in the BGG file section.

Another way of extending the game, is playing pre-set scenarios and campaigns instead of the card based system included in the game. They can provide a definitely different experience. You can find many custom made scenarios on the FFG website or you can try my Norgard and Sailing Down Korina's Tears campaigns. They only require the base game and even if they use the same rules, they play very differently from the official scenarios.
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whatever. Battlelore is one of my favorite games and I was more than satisfied with the daqan and uthuk expansions. I bought the undead because they add variety, but never really felt the need for another army (nice to have though, and they play great). I've gotten my money's worth out of battlelore and it'll happily remain in my collection.

had the base game been the only published module, I'd be at the front of the torchbearing mob with you guys

This variant also has me thinking I have a whole new game to explore again
Fight for the Elimination Variant (Tested with all army Expansions) (Not tested with reinforcement packs)
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The Moon wrote:
If you happen to own Runewars and its expansion Runewars: Banners of War have you played a Battlelore session with the figures from Runewars ?

Do you think if we can work together we can create custom made cards for
Elves even Orcs and Dwarves ?


I own BattleLore 2E and Runewars + Banners of War. I created my own custom Latari Elves units (https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/227540-budger...) and tried to test it with my Runewars miniatures. The problem I ran into was that the amount of different figure types in Runewars don't correspond to what you would expect from battlelore. As such, I had to do things like place two Darnati Warrior figures in a hex with a damage token, where the damage token represented the third figure. It was far from ideal. Still, it can be done. Personally, I think I'd be more inclined to buy some cheap elf miniatures from another company that are about the same size as BattleLore and use those for custom units. However, the likeliness of that actually happening is slim-to-none. If I proxy my Latari Elves in the future, I'm most likely going to use the Runewars figures or a different BattleLore faction. When I playtested for the Undead, I just had to pretend one of the armies was the Undead army and replace their unit cards accordingly. It works okay. It just doesn't help you feel as immersed.
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Three Headed Monkey
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The Moon wrote:

I am sick and tired of FFG products start off with taking our money and give us the impression of new developments and after everything comes to a sudden stop.

You get what you buy. Buying something doesn't enter a contract with FFG that they must support it further or make more expansions. If they announce an expansion and you buy the core based on that announcement, and then they cancel, then fair enough. But to buy a product based on future expectations when nothing has been promised is a bit entitled.

As it is the base game is great fun and the expansions provide a lot of content and a tonne of replay-ability. Even if I knew 100% that there is nothing else coming I'd still recommend this game to people. I still play it, after all.

Sure it would be nice for another expansion as something nice for the game's fans. Plenty of companies do things like that to garner good will, but there is nothing wrong with not doing it. The Undead expansions probably undersold. Maybe the Uthuk and Daqan expansions undersold and they went out on a limb for the Undead and when that also didn't sell enough they saw the writing on the wall. It is not their fault if a game isn't popular. Considering there probably is a large minimum amount of stock they have to produce it may be hard to justify the costs.
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Three Headed Monkey wrote:
Sure it would be nice for another expansion as something nice for the game's fans. Plenty of companies do things like that to garner good will, but there is nothing wrong with not doing it. The Undead expansions probably undersold. Maybe the Uthuk and Daqan expansions undersold and they went out on a limb for the Undead and when that also didn't sell enough they saw the writing on the wall. It is not their fault if a game isn't popular. Considering there probably is a large minimum amount of stock they have to produce it may be hard to justify the costs.


I think the mistake they made was expanding the core armies first before adding the other 2 factions that were highly anticipated.
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Minedog3 wrote:
The Moon wrote:

I am sick and tired of FFG products start off with taking our money and give us the impression of new developments and after everything comes to a

Why do not they finish what they start?


I'm sick of the FFG sales model that sells games with 'expansions' that are available almost at the same time as the game ships. Essentially they have just divided up the original game into sub-portions.

Generally I won't buy FFG games new, in part because of the 'expansion' mania, and in particular because the quality of some subsequent expansions is questionable. In BattleLore 1st ed, there is a noticable difference between the quality of the thought that has gone into the Days of Wonder expansions compared to the later FFG expansions (which someyimes recycled DOW expansion items). Playtesting the new expansuion to integrate with the game seems almost non-existant.

Similarly Descent 1st ed. suffered as the expansions deteriorated toward the end.

So I think there is a philosophy in FFG that expansion are there simply to milk the cow and require no effort or thought, and they then blame the sales of expansions as reason to discontinue. Maybe this is the 21C business model, but I feel FFG sell a hype, rather than a quality product, and the reliance of expansions to fill out their profits rather than be thoughtful products has essentially driven me away from purchasing new FFG products.

I am not against the expansion model of FFG in terms of principle, but I do think it does lead to "catalog cutting". That is to say, when they've got 5-6 super popular, super profitable lines built on the expansion model(Star Wars X-Wing, Android Netrunner, etc.), they seem to shed the standalone and smaller lines(note the GW sell-off). This is not the FFG that I first loved 10 years ago. I used to see the FFG crew and think "these guys love gaming and making games"....now the company seems to be run by bean-counters.

Actually, on principle, it was their price-fixing move last April with Asmodee North America to increase online prices for their games that I found deplorable('in the name of helping the FLGS'...yeah, right). Nothing wrong with profit, but when I saw one of their designers defend the price fixing policy while referring to gamers as "end users"(not gamers)...I was more than put off.

These two factors have me looking more and more to CMoN, iello, Ares and others to deliver games that suit my tastes(plus, this is the second BattleLore franchise that I've witnessed them put out to pasture which doesn't win FFG any love from me either). One of the best things about a growing industry is that there are several 'large catalog' companies now, and I am not stuck with FFG(Asmodee NA).
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Daniel James
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Minedog3 wrote:
The Moon wrote:

I am sick and tired of FFG products start off with taking our money and give us the impression of new developments and after everything comes to a

Why do not they finish what they start?


I'm sick of the FFG sales model that sells games with 'expansions' that are available almost at the same time as the game ships. Essentially they have just divided up the original game into sub-portions.

Generally I won't buy FFG games new, in part because of the 'expansion' mania, and in particular because the quality of some subsequent expansions is questionable. In BattleLore 1st ed, there is a noticable difference between the quality of the thought that has gone into the Days of Wonder expansions compared to the later FFG expansions (which someyimes recycled DOW expansion items). Playtesting the new expansuion to integrate with the game seems almost non-existant.

Similarly Descent 1st ed. suffered as the expansions deteriorated toward the end.

So I think there is a philosophy in FFG that expansion are there simply to milk the cow and require no effort or thought, and they then blame the sales of expansions as reason to discontinue. Maybe this is the 21C business model, but I feel FFG sell a hype, rather than a quality product, and the reliance of expansions to fill out their profits rather than be thoughtful products has essentially driven me away from purchasing new FFG products.


They borrowed from the video game industry with day one DLC. Annoying and greedy. 4 dice in the base set really made me cross.
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