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Subject: Anyone else hoping the heroes will be plastic (not resin)? rss

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Bum Kim
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Not sure if the Frogs addressed this somewhere so if someone knows, please chime in.

For those unfamiliar with the first Kickstarter, Shadows of Brimstone was FFP's first foray into mass miniatures and they promised high quality products. Well, the initial shipment showed minis that had "mushy" features and although I just painted to compensate, a lot of people complained about the lack of detail. Here is a comparison of the some of the core set minis to Reaper alternatives:


To address this issue,FFP decided with wave 1.5 on, to cast just the heroes in resin as you can achieve greater detail. Unfortunately, it is easier to get bubbles with this method and worse, whatever mold release the factory used for the heroes is incredibly hard to remove and made it so that paint (and in some cases, glue) wouldn't stick on it! Here's a comparison of brush on primer with SoB and a resin Beholder (see how the paint is beading up versues going smoothly on):


Also, spray primer and then rubbing my thumb across after drying. The primer came right off!


To this problem, FFP soaked all the resin minis in vinegar to remove the mold release and that made paint adhesion a lot better (although not 100% effective). Resin models picked up at Gencon 16:



Considering that the level of detail of the resin isn't noticeably different, the wayward bubbles and the mold release problem, I am really hoping that FoFo's hero line is entirely plastic as it is much easier to glue and paint. Look at the level of detail achieved in these plastic models:

Allies:


Scafford Gang:

Bandits:


I appreciate the Frogs trying to make the heroes look better but the solution made it worse in my opinion so I hope they go back to casting in plastic for FoFo. Anyone getting the SoB expansion heroes are stuck with resin, according to their most recent update that came out last night https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1034852783/shadows-of-b...:
"Boxes of Resin Hero Miniatures ready to be packed into Wave 2 boxes."
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Sid Rain
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I didn't see as many problems with the resin as others, so I was fine with it and even discovered a glue that worked well with resin. However, after seeing the kind of quality that comes out of Kingdom Death plastic minis, I know it's possible to get better quality plastic minis (though that's probably going to depend on the manufacturer). I'm fine either way, though plastic always seems easier to work with. I just have traumatic memories of when I first worked with resin and didn't soap/scrub them clean AND none of the glues I had been using previously worked well with resin.
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Gavin Downing
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From the FAQ:

"We have been producing HIPS hard plastic, multi-part figures for over 3 years now, working with several factories to refine the pipeline and process. The results are figures that keep getting better and better detail and quality, both in the tooling of the molds and the sculpting of the figures. The miniatures in Forbidden Fortress are some of our absolute best to date, and we are very excited for backers to see the level of detail on these figures."

So, yes, the plan is for them to be HIPS hard plastic.
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Ward Ed
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Yes. I am really hoping for high density polystyrene as they did for the original core set. As a mine cart backer I have been generally happy with everything FFP have done even with delays but am disappointed they switched to resin for some Heroes. In fact I would buy the resin heroes again if they came in plastic as I am not confident in my modeling skills for resin.

Stupid question. Can you use polystyrene cement for resin miniatures or do you need some other adhesive (hopefully not as otherwise unlikely my resin minis will ever get assembled)
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Sid Rain
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Quote:
Stupid question. Can you use polystyrene cement for resin miniatures or do you need some other adhesive (hopefully not as otherwise unlikely my resin minis will ever get assembled)

No, that plastic cement won't do anything for the resins. I've started using Loctite super glue (blue cap, no sure specific type) and it's awesome with resin. You also want to give it a good soap bath and scrub with a tooth brush.
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George
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Their current method seems to be plastic for the base game figures, and resin for the non-retail extras (alt genders, extra classes). This is a good question to put to FFP though.
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Robert Haddon
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I'm with the OP; I don't want to see any more resin minis. The bubbles and tenacious release agent aside, I really don't like the fragility of the resin used. They're fun to paint, but all around too worrisome. My female Drifter holds just a nub of a pistol. My high detail resin mini from Hero Forge has two broken legs.

I'm not sure what 'HIPS Plastic' is. I hope it's about the same stuff used for the Scafford Gang. Those and others like them I think were the best minis the Frogs have produced. Detail is good--not great, but none of the other problems of resins.
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Gavin Downing
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HIPS plastic is what the all the non-resin figures have been, including the Scafford gang.
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Scott Everts
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I hated them at first since I prefer model glue over super glue and it took me 3 tries to find a primer that stuck. But after painting half a dozen I just love the amazing detail. The original core heroes were pretty bad and hard to make out. So much easier to "stay in the lines" on the resin one.

That said, the later HIPS plastic figures have been better so hopeful the new stuff in Forbidden Fortress is more detailed. I know they can do it. Just look at Games Workshop stuff, its amazingly detailed.
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Klutz
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ScottE wrote:
I hated them at first since I prefer model glue over super glue and it took me 3 tries to find a primer that stuck. But after painting half a dozen I just love the amazing detail. The original core heroes were pretty bad and hard to make out. So much easier to "stay in the lines" on the resin one.


Which primer did you end up using?
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Scott Everts
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KevBelisle wrote:
ScottE wrote:
I hated them at first since I prefer model glue over super glue and it took me 3 tries to find a primer that stuck. But after painting half a dozen I just love the amazing detail. The original core heroes were pretty bad and hard to make out. So much easier to "stay in the lines" on the resin one.


Which primer did you end up using?

I used "Liquid Surface White Primer 40ml Bottle Tamiya". Found it on Amazon. It sticks. You can scratch it off but that's probably the case with any primer if you abuse the paintjob. It doesn't run off or flake off like the acrylic primer I'm using on the HIPS minis.



Please note it requires thinner to clean the brushes and really stinks! So do it outside or a well ventilated area. It dries fast and is thick so work quickly.
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Joanna G
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(I know this Klutz' question wasn't directed at me but) I use Reapers brush on primer and didn't have any problems coating the Resin figures - some of them just needed two coats in places (the resin is the little more slick than the plastic figures). It doesn't stink either.

I prefer plastic overall - easier to assemble. But did enjoy the extra detail.
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Scott Everts
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There's some nice shots of the resin minis coming with Wave 2. Man, the detail is amazing. But the minis they've been showing on the FF Kickstarer are amazing too. But I'm guessing they are resin so no idea how the HIPS versions will turn out.

Some examples-



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Highlord Tamburlaine
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My stalwart can of light grey Tamiya primer defeated all pesky resin issues with both my Brimstone resins and my Raging Heroes ladies, which were plagued by similar slimy resin issues.

All hail the grey Tamiya spray primers!

With that said I'd prefer my heroes in plastic too. Get weird about using resins in anything non- wargaming.
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Lou Michalski
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From the most recent Q&A
Quote:
@George – “will any of the models be resin?” – No resin currently planned for this KS!
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Robert Haddon
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I'm a bit confused now. The pictures of the new resin heroes from the last SOB KS1 update do not look like the same material as the 'preview' resin heroes available on the Frogs' commerce site. They look shinier and there's no bubbles.

Is it just my eyes, or does 'resin' cover a spectrum of material in minis?
 
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Bum Kim
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Friedmutant wrote:
Is it just my eyes, or does 'resin' cover a spectrum of material in minis?

As I understand it, "resin" is a broad term for a two-part chemical reaction that hardens so it can be various materials in terms of what those two chemicals actually are. Also, the mixing in of the grey colorant might make the models look different.

Because of this two-part nature, I think resin might have a lower viscosity and therefore can flow into the details of a mold more readily (similar to melted metal but significantly cheaper). That's why you see highly detailed minis usually being cast in resin than plastic.

The downside of resin is that it is more brittle than plastic and can break more easily. Also, as evidence with SoB minis, the release mold has to be washed off which can usually be taken care of with a toothbrush and dish soap.

So it's a trade-off between whether or not you want more details or ease of painting and durability. Because of how hard it has been to wash off the release mold, I would rather have them in plastic and lose the detail. So I'm super happy that FoFo will no longer have resin heroes!
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Tyrone ..................
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I prefer the plastic. The resins were too hard to get glued together.
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Robert
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rccoll wrote:
I prefer the plastic. The resins were too hard to get glued together.


I prefer plastic - easier to glue, repair/trim, mod and paint

The level of detail is fine, especially the later releases.
 
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Scott Everts
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Don't get me wrong, I love the detail of the resin minis but hate the prep time and annoyance of using a petroleum based primer. I just primed 4 more resin minis last night and it wasn't fun. So glad they are going full plastic in the next set. I hope those FF hero mini images are what we can expect from HIPS in the future sets.

I wonder if they are going to release the hero sets in the future? Since the resin heroes require a higher level of skill to prep, they might have a problem releasing resin hero sets of the new classes in box sets. But it would be a shame if they never got distributed except for KS backers. The new classes are so interesting.
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Gavin Downing
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Everything but the Outlaw class should eventually be released, at least through their website if nowhere else.
 
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Nick Hughes
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I understand the multi part models (for the most part) in terms of getting detail etc.

But this just seems multi part for the sake of multi part...

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Bum Kim
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jokeroz wrote:
I understand the multi part models (for the most part) in terms of getting detail etc.

But this just seems multi part for the sake of multi part...

Yeah, I agree, especially since there are no optional poses nor alternative arms. But something that puts miniature assembly into perspective is Kingdom Death Monster.


Once you assemble these guys, almost any other miniature assembly is pretty easy.
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Nick Hughes
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I need to keep revisiting this image while the KS is on to deter me from backing.

As a long time GW gamer I have had just about enough assembly of models and this might be enough to keep my wallet safe.
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Scott Everts
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jokeroz wrote:
I understand the multi part models (for the most part) in terms of getting detail etc.

But this just seems multi part for the sake of multi part...


You have to understand how molds work. Undercuts are a problem. Those arms would get stuck inside the molds, so that's why they are separate pieces. That bear is trivial to build compared to some of the Wave 1.5 resin figures. Had one that required gluing on the guns!

You'll notice that some of the later minis are much simpler. Look at the resin Void Sorcerer & Serpentman Shaman bosses. They are designed to sit flat in the molds.

I'm one of those crazy people that really enjoy gluing the minis. It's relaxing!
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