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Subject: At World's End rss

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Lukas Litzsinger
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What does everyone think who has seen it? Critics are pretty split over it.

IMO, it was a good movie but not as entertaining as either of the first two. There needed to be a better action scene in the first part of the movie, rather than the pretty lame scene in Singapore. And what was up with the hangings?

Other than that there is a lot of little stuff that kind of bothers me, such as how they treated Norrington, Beckett's 'surrender' and Calypso's transformation. And Chow Yun-Fat could have been much cooler.

All in all I thought it was okay, maybe a little long and anti-climactic: I really wanted to see the two fleets go at it, and would have been happy with just a couple of overhead shots that show the flash of the cannons and the chunks of wood flyin'!

I also don't understand what's so important about The Black Pearl, now that her crew ain't cursed. Not to mention how Barbossa cam a pirate king...he was Jack's first mate! And all the Jack Sparrows were...strange.

I was also hoping the Calypso/Davy Jones' storyline would play out a bit more. And I didn't particularly like the scene at the end of the credits.

Anyway, nowhere near as good as the first one, nor the second, but a fine ending for Dead Man's Chest, at least.
 
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All I can say is I want the monky's agent.

I agree it works best as an ending to the trilogy, with a great bittersweet finale. Don't watch this without seeing the first two films because you would be completely lost.
 
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Chuck Easterlin
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I thought it was fablulous, but again, it is not and cannot be a stand alone movie.

Which is OK.
 
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I thought it was fantastic fun! I can't understand the critical drubbing. It was exactly what I expected it to be, a very fun pop corn movie. I actually think I liked this one the best of the three.
 
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Lukas Litzsinger
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vandemonium wrote:
I thought it was fantastic fun! I can't understand the critical drubbing. It was exactly what I expected it to be, a very fun pop corn movie. I actually think I liked this one the best of the three.


I'd agree...if it weren't for the two movies that preceded it.
 
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Gabe Alvaro
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Spectacularly dumb. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I thought it was a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. Don't get me wrong, I know it's supposed to be big dumb fun, but it just seemed like a lot of "aaar"-ing and pirate-posing about something or other I just didn't care about. I think I went just to finish off seeing the trilogy. I'm glad it's over. And I agree, it was the best of the three.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
The best part is right after the good guys go over the edge and cut to black, cue the theme park ride audio and then to all white and Jack in Davey Jones locker. It was like a whole 'nother movie. Too bad they had to get back to the main story. Oh well.
 
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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I think perhaps we are seeing an evolution in storytelling, some sort of MTV-era shenanigans that satisfies people in ways incoherent to those outside the demographic.

Because Pirates 2 and Pirates 3 have been utterly catastrophic films, complete abortions of storytelling, and the death of narrative cinema. I can't fathom anyone who watches these movies and feels anything less than rage that someone didn't take this extraordinarily awesome concept and actually make something good. But, see, there are a LOT of people who seem to like this. So I propose that audiences are evolving in interesting ways.

The only other conclusion is that people are really stupid. Ever since I stopped watching the evening news my love for that theory has diminished and my optimism has returned. I'm a bit nervous I'll find this a self-delusion, but I try not to think, which I guess would make me more like the audience that enjoys Spiderman 3, Shrek 3, and Pirates 3.
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Wil Upchurch
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I hadn't seen Pirates 2 until this weekend when I rented it to watch before 3. I was incredibly disappointed in 2, which was devoid of narrative structure and featured plenty of slapstick comedy without any of the menace of the first film.

I liked the first movie for what it was, and the story and characters actually made sense. In 2 all that got thrown out the window in favor of jumping from one set piece to the next and having the characters just sorta be how they were supposed to be (what was the source of the tension between Elizabeth and Will again? Do they secretly loathe furtive glances?).

This third film was better than the second, but still a bit shallow on story. At least it had well imagined fights and locations, and the set and production design was fantastic I thought. All in all I was able to enjoy the third where I wasn't really the second, so it wasn't time wasted.

Regarding the post-credits scene: All I could think was, "man he's going to be pissed."
 
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apotheos wrote:
I think perhaps we are seeing an evolution in storytelling, some sort of MTV-era shenanigans that satisfies people in ways incoherent to those outside the demographic.

Because Pirates 2 and Pirates 3 have been utterly catastrophic films, complete abortions of storytelling, and the death of narrative cinema. I can't fathom anyone who watches these movies and feels anything less than rage that someone didn't take this extraordinarily awesome concept and actually make something good. But, see, there are a LOT of people who seem to like this. So I propose that audiences are evolving in interesting ways.

The only other conclusion is that people are really stupid. Ever since I stopped watching the evening news my love for that theory has diminished and my optimism has returned. I'm a bit nervous I'll find this a self-delusion, but I try not to think, which I guess would make me more like the audience that enjoys Spiderman 3, Shrek 3, and Pirates 3.


I have a theory: Many people have different taste in movies than you do, and a lot of them are smart.

I thought each of the films in question was the worst in its series. But whereas Spider-Man 3 was a disjointed mess that wasted a great villain, Shrek 3 and Pirates 3 were enjoyable despite their flaws. The fact that they didn't live up to their predecessors says more about their predecessors than it does about them.
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Scott Russell
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I hadn't seen 2 until 5 on Friday and at 9, my daughter and I went to see 3. I was pirated out, which may have affected my opinion of the relative merits of the two shows. We didn't like 3 as well as 2 for the same reasons someone above felt the opposite. There were more funny parts in 2; we especially enjoyed the whole waterwheel scene. I can't see taking this series seriously, without the comedy, I wouldn't have made it through 1. So more is better.

I liked the Singapore street scene and the extra Jacks. IMO, Jack being funny and especially his breathless polysyllabic often circular explanations and off the cuff comments, "And that's without any rum!" are the best part of the movies.

There were definitely areas that weren't explained. For example, how did Lord Whatsis know someone would start singing, thus triggering the meeting of pirates?
 
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Gabe Alvaro
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mistermarino wrote:
I have a theory: Many people have different taste in movies than you do, and a lot of them are smart.


I would really like to know what a smart (your word) person finds tasty in this flick? I've been able to follow some deliciously convoluted and head-twisting movies. This one I just couldn't follow or even be arsed to follow really. I don't think that's my fault. I think I may agree with the monkey. Perhaps then it does have something to do with the way I'm receiving the narrative?
 
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apotheos wrote:


The only other conclusion is that people are really stupid. Ever since I stopped watching the evening news my love for that theory has diminished and my optimism has returned. I'm a bit nervous I'll find this a self-delusion, but I try not to think, which I guess would make me more like the audience that enjoys Spiderman 3, Shrek 3, and Pirates 3.


Nice. Maybe, just maybe, people have different tastes than you? Maybe, just maybe I wasn't expecting a Kurosawa. Maybe, I was expecting a fun, pop corn movie and I got it. I DO try to think, so going in I KNEW this was going to be a summer action movie. A fun yarn. Entertainment. This is one of the nastiest comments I've see in ages man. Truly low. But I guess I'm just dumb.
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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vandemonium wrote:
apotheos wrote:


The only other conclusion is that people are really stupid. Ever since I stopped watching the evening news my love for that theory has diminished and my optimism has returned. I'm a bit nervous I'll find this a self-delusion, but I try not to think, which I guess would make me more like the audience that enjoys Spiderman 3, Shrek 3, and Pirates 3.


Nice. Maybe, just maybe, people have different tastes than you? Maybe, just maybe I wasn't expecting a Kurosawa. Maybe, I was expecting a fun, pop corn movie and I got it. I DO try to think, so going in I KNEW this was going to be a summer action movie. A fun yarn. Entertainment. This is one of the nastiest comments I've see in ages man. Truly low. But I guess I'm just dumb.


I'm not name calling.

But I reject the assertion that I was expecting too much. I adore big summer blockbuster popcorn crunching films. Sit back and enjoy the ride stuff. Over the top spectaculars. Love em. Adore them.

But this a lazy over the top ridiculosity with FAR to many plot threads that are resolved FAR too clumsily. It is confusing, noisy, stupid, and ill mannered. I can write an essay about how it is a badly made film.

I'm glad you enjoyed it, I can't deprive you of that pleasure and I don't mean to. But its hardly a rebuttal of how sloppily this whole trilogy was thrown together, and does nothing but support my supposition that the problem is declining standards.

These movies COULD have been made well. They just weren't. But hey. People like NASCAR too, so whatever.
 
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Scott Russell
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People here are going to find most of the human race stupid, especially if they apply the concept, "Those that disagree are stupid." laugh

What I can't get over that folks here are still capable of worrying about what a cranky monkey thinks of them.

I don't watch many movies, and firmly believe that books are a much better way to convey thoughtful plots, concepts and entertainment. I watch movies for special effects and well delivered lines. Personally I don't think people that enjoy watching movies as a form of cultural enlightenment are stupid. Nor do I think people that believe that their subjective evaluations have objective merit are stupid, only misinformed. cool

I save my derision for folks that would rather watch TV/movies than play games. laugh

 
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apotheos wrote:
vandemonium wrote:
apotheos wrote:


The only other conclusion is that people are really stupid. Ever since I stopped watching the evening news my love for that theory has diminished and my optimism has returned. I'm a bit nervous I'll find this a self-delusion, but I try not to think, which I guess would make me more like the audience that enjoys Spiderman 3, Shrek 3, and Pirates 3.


Nice. Maybe, just maybe, people have different tastes than you? Maybe, just maybe I wasn't expecting a Kurosawa. Maybe, I was expecting a fun, pop corn movie and I got it. I DO try to think, so going in I KNEW this was going to be a summer action movie. A fun yarn. Entertainment. This is one of the nastiest comments I've see in ages man. Truly low. But I guess I'm just dumb.


I'm not name calling.

But I reject the assertion that I was expecting too much. I adore big summer blockbuster popcorn crunching films. Sit back and enjoy the ride stuff. Over the top spectaculars. Love em. Adore them.

But this a lazy over the top ridiculosity with FAR to many plot threads that are resolved FAR too clumsily. It is confusing, noisy, stupid, and ill mannered. I can write an essay about how it is a badly made film.

I'm glad you enjoyed it, I can't deprive you of that pleasure and I don't mean to. But its hardly a rebuttal of how sloppily this whole trilogy was thrown together, and does nothing but support my supposition that the problem is declining standards.

These movies COULD have been made well. They just weren't. But hey. People like NASCAR too, so whatever.


Dude what is this?

apotheos wrote:

The only other conclusion is that people are really stupid


If you say: 'I didn't like it because...' - No worries. But You ARE name calling, man.

I like Nascar too, so I guess I'm double dumb in your book. People like what they like man. If you like other stuff that is cool. You can criticize all you like but to insult people's intelligence because they happened to enjoy forms of entertainment that you do not makes me think of the elitism argument that has been thrown about on BGG lately.

You didn't like it, cool. I did. Even with the flaws you point out, to me it was just a fun movie. I have no issue with your dislike of the movie, I DO have an issue for being called "really stupid" because I enjoyed it.
 
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Unfortunately, most modern action movies are moving pretty far away from what I find entertaining.

IMO, the most important part of an action movie is pace. You can have way too much action in a movie, making it lose its impact because of the sheer amount of it, and you can have way too little, making it drag. The original Pirates had sublime pacing, with just enough comedy, plot and character development to make the action scenes work. I think The Matrix, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and the 1999 version of The Mummy are pretty good examples of good pace. Heck, even Kill Bill part I fits the bill.

Now, The second Pirates movie was IMO awful, if just because the action made me be numb to the whole thing. I actually fell asleep watching it! Sometimes it's just one scene that drags for so long that ruins a movie. The Phantom Menace's pod race, The 100 man brawl and the dance scene in The Matrix Reloaded are pretty good examples of this.

As for slow movies, we can all think of a certain movie trilogy whose 3 hour long episodes made most people that didn't know or couldn't understand the source material fall asleep.

Now, different people have different ideas of how quickly a movie should go. Audiences seem to be more tolerant to 'all action, no plot' movies than I am. I wonder if anyone would be able to sit through the first hour of 2001: A space odyssey anymore.
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hibikir wrote:
Heck, even Kill Bill part I fits the bill.

Exactly the movie I was thinking of. A great example of a lot going on with good pace.

hibikir wrote:
Now, different people have different ideas of how quickly a movie should go. Audiences seem to be more tolerant to 'all action, no plot' movies than I am. I wonder if anyone would be able to sit through the first hour of 2001: A space odyssey anymore.

OMG another fav, but for totally different qualities.

The director has an obligation to the viewer to bring him along for the ride, to get him to feel, to get him to care and be involved. Without this, any film, fast-paced or slow, is going to miss the mark. In the case of Pirates 3, its just 2:48 hours of marks missed. Uggh. And they say people's attention spans are getting shorter?
 
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vandemonium wrote:
I have no issue with your dislike of the movie, I DO have an issue for being called "really stupid" because I enjoyed it.


I felt I was being flippant and dismissive. I certainly never called anyone names in specific, and stupid is an adjective, not a name.

If it adds clarity, yes, it is my opinion that you have poor taste in movies. The movie was of sufficiently low quality that I can't do anything but hold that opinion of you.

 
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hibikir wrote:
Unfortunately, most modern action movies are moving pretty far away from what I find entertaining.

IMO, the most important part of an action movie is pace. You can have way too much action in a movie, making it lose its impact because of the sheer amount of it, and you can have way too little, making it drag. The original Pirates had sublime pacing, with just enough comedy, plot and character development to make the action scenes work. I think The Matrix, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and the 1999 version of The Mummy are pretty good examples of good pace. Heck, even Kill Bill part I fits the bill.


Absolutely, agreed (except Kill Bill I, but that's a different discussion ). I've even worked on a several of the 'new age, pat ourselves on the back' action films. Pacing is sadly missing. Too long, too self indulgent, and no sense of self censorship. Not censoring in the sense of being offended, but in cutting out what doesn't help the film. Once an action film goes over 2 hours (I'd even argue 1.5 hours for most topics) it better be for a really, REALLY good reason, and every minute after that 2 hour mark better make it more exciting than the last. Most of the time this is NOT the case.

So far, the most enjoyable 'action' film of the summer has been "Hot Fuzz". Sure the action isn't really until the end, but the build up is highly enjoyable, and as a result, the payoff worth the wait. Most of the rest just stinks so far.

Oh, and if you haven't seen it already, skip right over 28 Weeks Later. Awful, awful, overly contrived stuff.
 
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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hibikir wrote:
Audiences seem to be more tolerant to 'all action, no plot' movies than I am. I wonder if anyone would be able to sit through the first hour of 2001: A space odyssey anymore.


A better example: movie credits. I watch an old film and get EXTREMELY IMPATIENT when the credits are at the beginning. But my parents have no problem with it. That is evolving tastes in action.


 
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apotheos wrote:
hibikir wrote:
Audiences seem to be more tolerant to 'all action, no plot' movies than I am. I wonder if anyone would be able to sit through the first hour of 2001: A space odyssey anymore.


A better example: movie credits. I watch an old film and get EXTREMELY IMPATIENT when the credits are at the beginning. But my parents have no problem with it. That is evolving tastes in action.


I actually miss the credit structure of the 80's/90's. Opening bit of teaser action/story setup, opening credits (including the name of the movie) and then the movie. Opening credits when done well can really set the tone for the movie and give the audience a chance to settle down. Not to mention, we really miss out on some great graphic design. Some titles that did a nice job:
Ruthless People (a comedy about murder and kidnapping)
Most Schwartzennager films from the '80s. That deep thumping music, got you cranked up for some ominous adrenaline filled techno craziness.
The Matrix
Conspiracy Theory
28 Days Later
etc.

People have lost patience in movies because the movies makers have allowed themselves to be trained to be faster deliver it now quick fixes. They've written themselves into a corner that they can't deliver on. We've ended up with a list of movies that think all action all the time for the impatient viewer is what they really want. Obviously, it's not working.
 
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I feel the same way about Pirates 3 as I did about the Matrix 3. In both cases the first movie was enjoyable enough and didn't in any way warrant a sequel. But Hollywood is what it is, so sequels we got, both of which were too long and never knew when to quit. Both were jam-packed full of snoozeworthy "action" scenes that long outstayed their welcome, trumped up romantic plots between characters with no chemistry, and stories obviously written by committee. In both cases the second installments served no purpose but to gum up whatever resolutions had occurred in the first movie and end with the new story half-told to usher in a third movie.

And in both cases I found it easier and cheaper and more satisfying to simply forget that I wasted time and money on the second movie than to drum up enthusiasm for the third.
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Nice little opinion article on this very topic:

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20040408,00.html
 
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I walked out of the theater disappointed, and confused. The plot, if you could call it that, was so convoluted, I lost track about 20 minutes in, and never did catch up. This was supposed to answer questions, but I just ended up with more. Overall, I was left with a feeling of "who cares?" I saw this with a family that included a 13-yr old daughter who is obsessed with anything Pirates or Johnny Depp. She felt the same way, so I don't feel totally alone in this.

SPOILER ALERT:
I liked the bit with Keith Richards as Jack's father, as it's my understanding that the character's portrayal was actually based on him. The monkey was also pretty cool.
 
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