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Subject: At World's End rss

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I've been crazy, couldn't you tell. I threw stones at the stars, but the whole sky fell.
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blindspot wrote:
mistermarino wrote:
I have a theory: Many people have different taste in movies than you do, and a lot of them are smart.

I would really like to know what a smart (your word) person finds tasty in this flick? I've been able to follow some deliciously convoluted and head-twisting movies. This one I just couldn't follow or even be arsed to follow really. I don't think that's my fault. I think I may agree with the monkey. Perhaps then it does have something to do with the way I'm receiving the narrative?

I said smart because apotheos suggested stupidity as an alternative explanation for the popularity of these movies. And I know for a fact that some smart people like some or all of them.

Even conceding the movie's flaws (too long, drags a bit in the beginning, some confusing parts, some missed opportunities, a few jokes that uncharacteristically fall flat), there's plenty to like. I made a partial list for you, if it helps...

Spoiler (click to reveal)

1. Johnny Depp's performance as Jack -- it's been fun from the first moments of the first movie.
2. Keith Richards as Jack's dad.
3. Keith's classic response to Jack's question, "How's mum?"
4. Keira Knightley.
5. Orlando Bloom finally seems comfortable in the role of Will -- he seemed a little tight in the first two movies.
6. The "...without the rum" line mentioned above.
7. "If I weren't mad, this would probably never work."
8. Any number of excellent stunts.
9. The scene with the two ships circling each other in the whirlpool, cannons blazing, pirates and sea creatures swinging across to fight and the whole battle that ensues. I thought it was thrilling.
10. Jack forgoing his revenge to save Will.
11. The scene when Davy Jones and Calypso confront each other about their lost love, when we get to briefly see the face of the fine actor (Bill Nighy) who plays Jones.
12. The actress who plays Calypso, Naomie Harris, a real scene stealer.
13. The pirate king meeting, which had some funny moments.
14. Geoffrey Rush as Barbossa, who I think has been well done from the very beginning.
15. The fact that the filmmakers didn't feel the need to explain every reference to earlier movies with some cheesy prologue or flashback. They trusted filmgoers to care enough to know that information coming in.
16. The Flying Dutchman rising up out of the water ready for a fight.
17. Tons of double-crosses and apparent double-crosses that turn out not to be.
18. A flying monkey!


There are 18 things I like, and I could list more. If liking them makes me stupid, so be it. But I think it just means I don't share your opinion of the movie.
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Kevin Nieman
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Rukasu wrote:
What does everyone think who has seen it? Critics are pretty split over it.

I think it was good for a popcorn flick, but the Jack Sparrow character is getting tame in my eyes. In the first film, Jack was a dazzling character. In this one, it's just more of the same.

Also, not having seen Pirates 2 since its opening, I lost track of who was betraying whom, who wanted what, and why I cared. So, I just sat back and watched things explode.

Finally, I *did* enjoy the scene at the end credits because I ALWAYS stay for the credits in every film, so seeing a significant scene at the end is a nice little "Thank you" from the filmmakers to those people who stay.

Overall, I recommend the film as a popcorn flick, but nothing I'd own on DVD.
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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mistermarino wrote:

There are 18 things I like, and I could list more. If liking them makes me stupid, so be it. But I think it just means I don't share your opinion of the movie.
Maybe you should pop over to my blog and read the conclusion to my Spiderman 3 review to get an idea over how I see movies.

But in lieu of that, a simple question: Wouldn't it be great if someone made a movie with the wit, character, and charm of all those moments you mention, but didn't go off and get totally stupid for the rest of the film?

Because that film could exist. It is a testament to .... well, something ... that it doesn't.
 
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But I never objected to you disliking the movie, merely to your suggestion that stupidity could be an alternative explanation for other people liking it.

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Gabe Alvaro
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mistermarino wrote:
There are 18 things I like, and I could list more.
Yes, a grand list. I saw all of those things. The problem I see is that none of that was really coherently connected. Or maybe I just wasn't smart enough to connect it all up. Now I see what you mean.
 
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My son is 8. He may be the perfect target audience.

In any case, not only did he love it (except the part when he had to run to the bathroom), but afterwards when we went out for dinner with friends who went with us, he began to dissect the mythology and all of the motives.

He came up with some amazing little linkages between the three films and the various double crosses that happened.

He easily surmised that while Jack THINKS he wants immortality, he doesn't. He has had immortality thrust upon him several times, and each time turned it away. What Jack wants is the HUNT for immortality.

He then followed up that Elizabeth doesn't really want to be with Will. She just wants to long for being with Will. She used Jack originally to push him away and then this (I won't detail it as a spoiler here) to make sure she can always long for him.

Tia Dalma / Davey Jones is purely based on want and unattainable as well.

The EIC actually gets what it wants - control of the seas. And is ultimately destroyed by the pirates who simply miss the yearning of hard work.

Will gets part of what he wants, but technically, it also costs him his life freedom.

The thematic element divined by an 8 year old boy over his cheeseburger and root beer was that people need to have something they cannot have to keep them going, and if they get it, their life is over.

Now, following up on that, he pointed out that no one ever double crosses anyone as long as you realize that each person must do what they have to to try for their goal and NOT attain it. They need to get as close as they can, but attaining it will ruin them.

I'm not sure just how accurate he is, but I'll have to see the movie again with this in mind.

If a fantasy film is coherently connected to the mind of an 8 year old boy, then I have to say that may be the perfect fantasy film.
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Sounds like a pretty smart 8 year old. Correct or not (I haven't seen the third), his theories are pretty intellectual, and much deeper than I typically would have come up with even at 16.
 
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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mistermarino wrote:
But I never objected to you disliking the movie, merely to your suggestion that stupidity could be an alternative explanation for other people liking it.


Well I guess I could add "willful obliviousness to the movies flaws" to the list of possible reasons.
 
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apotheos wrote:
mistermarino wrote:
But I never objected to you disliking the movie, merely to your suggestion that stupidity could be an alternative explanation for other people liking it.


Well I guess I could add "willful obliviousness to the movies flaws" to the list of possible reasons.
Ugh. File this with all the "you're stupid if you don't like game A." Entertainment is by it's very nature subjective. One person's Mona Lisa is another's piece of junk mail.
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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kdiddy13 wrote:
apotheos wrote:
mistermarino wrote:
But I never objected to you disliking the movie, merely to your suggestion that stupidity could be an alternative explanation for other people liking it.


Well I guess I could add "willful obliviousness to the movies flaws" to the list of possible reasons.
Ugh. File this with all the "you're stupid if you don't like game A." Entertainment is by it's very nature subjective. One person's Mona Lisa is another's piece of junk mail.

And the person who thinks a piece of junk mail is the Mona Lisa is an idiot.

Edit: The person who has a special fondness for the junk mail for whatever reasons is just fine. It is not just fine if someone comes along and says "hay, thats junk mail you have there" and the person gets pissed off.
 
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apotheos wrote:
kdiddy13 wrote:
apotheos wrote:
mistermarino wrote:
But I never objected to you disliking the movie, merely to your suggestion that stupidity could be an alternative explanation for other people liking it.


Well I guess I could add "willful obliviousness to the movies flaws" to the list of possible reasons.
Ugh. File this with all the "you're stupid if you don't like game A." Entertainment is by it's very nature subjective. One person's Mona Lisa is another's piece of junk mail.

And the person who thinks a piece of junk mail is the Mona Lisa is an idiot.

Edit: The person who has a special fondness for the junk mail for whatever reasons is just fine. It is not just fine if someone comes along and says "hay, thats junk mail you have there" and the person gets pissed off.
Perhaps I should have compared controversial art works (like someone enjoying abstract art vs. surrealism, it's not for everyone) but way to miss the point nonetheless. Or have I missed the point and you're just trolling here?
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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kdiddy13 wrote:
apotheos wrote:
kdiddy13 wrote:
apotheos wrote:
mistermarino wrote:
But I never objected to you disliking the movie, merely to your suggestion that stupidity could be an alternative explanation for other people liking it.


Well I guess I could add "willful obliviousness to the movies flaws" to the list of possible reasons.
Ugh. File this with all the "you're stupid if you don't like game A." Entertainment is by it's very nature subjective. One person's Mona Lisa is another's piece of junk mail.

And the person who thinks a piece of junk mail is the Mona Lisa is an idiot.

Edit: The person who has a special fondness for the junk mail for whatever reasons is just fine. It is not just fine if someone comes along and says "hay, thats junk mail you have there" and the person gets pissed off.
Perhaps I should have compared controversial art works (like someone enjoying abstract art vs. surrealism, it's not for everyone) but way to miss the point nonetheless. Or have I missed the point and you're just trolling here?

Your just sour because...wait...because what, exactly? I think its a terribly made movie. What are you wanting to see me do here? Somehow think otherwise, or hold some logically inconsistent viewpoint that it IS terrible but people who don't think its terrible are not wrong?

You never needed my permission to like the damn thing, and I'm not going to apologize for sharing my opinion.
 
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apotheos wrote:
mistermarino wrote:
But I never objected to you disliking the movie, merely to your suggestion that stupidity could be an alternative explanation for other people liking it.


Well I guess I could add "willful obliviousness to the movies flaws" to the list of possible reasons.

Actually, I conceded and even listed some of its flaws right up front.

I liked it despite its flaws. You disliked it despite its virtues. There are plenty of smart people in both camps.

And for the record, the objection is not to "Hey, that's junk mail" but to "Hey, that's junk mail, stupid."

blindspot wrote:

mistermarino wrote:

There are 18 things I like, and I could list more.
Yes, a grand list. I saw all of those things. The problem I see is that none of that was really coherently connected. Or maybe I just wasn't smart enough to connect it all up. Now I see what you mean.

Sounds like you're plenty smart enough to see the connections -- they just weren't strong enough for you and didn't satisfy. I'm okay with that.

I might wish for you to take more pleasure from the highs and be less distressed by the lows. But it's your moviegoing experience, so take from it what you will.

But watch out for monkeys flinging poo!
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I'm sorry but I'm with Eddie the Monkey on this one. Pirates 2, had it been about 30 minutes shorter, would have just been a bad movie. But, as it was released, Pirates 2 turned out to be a horrible piece of crap that just went on and on and on and on and on with tacked on stupid plot twist after tacked on stupid plot twist after tacked on stupid plot twist. Even the action sequences were so completely absurd that they failed to be exciting in any way. And this isn't even mentioning the lame humor and cheap rum jokes.

I am of course skipping the 2.5+ hour long Pirates 3 (seriously, people paid to sit and watch that for almost THREE hours?) and finding better ways to spend my $7 (I'm thinking 2 overpriced coffeehouse drinks would provide far more entertainment than this 'summer blockbuster')

For the record, I also thought Pirates 1 was very mediocre but, I seem to be in the very small minority on that one so I'll let it be.

 
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apotheos wrote:


Your just sour because...wait...because what, exactly? I think its a terribly made movie. What are you wanting to see me do here? Somehow think otherwise, or hold some logically inconsistent viewpoint that it IS terrible but people who don't think its terrible are not wrong?

You never needed my permission to like the damn thing, and I'm not going to apologize for sharing my opinion.
I'm not arguing whether it's a good movie or not. I'm fine with people not liking what I consider good movies, and with people liking what I'd consider bad movies. I love moaning about a movie's faults and bemoaning how awful they are (see the 28 Weeks Later thread). But what's rubbed me the wrong way is you holding to the belief that people are "stupid" for not agreeing with a subjective opinion on something as individual as tastes in entertainment.

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kdiddy13 wrote:
But what's rubbed me the wrong way is you holding to the belief that people are "stupid" for not agreeing with a subjective opinion on something as individual as tastes in entertainment.

Well, ok, but it's just that bad in my opinion that its bordering on objective, in my subjective opinion. And if you'll excuse the crucifixion, I think your expressed interest in making films leaves it open for me to hold you to a higher standard. You should know better. This was a commercial exploitation screen bomb.

But there really isn't much of a point in dwelling on this. I'll avoid the 28 Weeks Later thread as it was a quite nice film and we don't need to retread over the covered ground.
 
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apotheos wrote:
kdiddy13 wrote:
But what's rubbed me the wrong way is you holding to the belief that people are "stupid" for not agreeing with a subjective opinion on something as individual as tastes in entertainment.

Well, ok, but it's just that bad in my opinion that its bordering on objective, in my subjective opinion. And if you'll excuse the crucifixion, I think your expressed interest in making films leaves it open for me to hold you to a higher standard. You should know better. This was a commercial exploitation screen bomb.

But there really isn't much of a point in dwelling on this. I'll avoid the 28 Weeks Later thread as it was a quite nice film and we don't need to retread over the covered ground.
Just to be clear, I wasn't defending the movie, merely the right for people to enjoy it without their intelligence being called into question.

Wait. Did you just say that you were able to overlook the gaping flaws 28 Weeks Later to consider it a nice film, and see it as more than a commercialized retread of a successful independent film!?
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