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Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: Saloon Girl, a way to slow her down? rss

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Michael NA
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After a couple of sessions, it seems evident that the Saloon Girl is on another level than the rest of the Posse (Rancher, Bandido, Outlaw).

She have been very lucky by drawing both the personal weapon giving a free attack and the gear card that grants a free attack so that isn't helping.
At this point she is about 500 Xp ahead of the rest of the posses average (thought to be fair 1 of us missed a session so that IS dragging down that average)

Further more in town last session, she literally earned as much in town as I (The Rancher) had earned in the previous adventure.

Is there any reasonable way to slow her down a little without her simply playing sub-optimally? Because that isn't any fun either.
Or do we just accept that she is the main character and the rest of us are Sidekicks at best?
 
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Arthur Leung
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nmnighteyes wrote:
She have been very lucky by drawing both the personal weapon giving a free attack and the gear card that grants a free attack so that isn't helping.


Just to confirm, you are making only one free attack per hero turn, correct? In the rulebook (page 25), it says that

"No more than 1 Free Attack may be made by a Hero in a single turn."

nmnighteyes wrote:

Further more in town last session, she literally earned as much in town as I (The Rancher) had earned in the previous adventure.


As far as I can recall, the Casino has a special action that only the Saloon Girl can do, where she can earn money and draw Gear cards. The Rancher has no special locations or actions that she can do in Town, so it's only natural that the Saloon Girl nets more cash than the Rancher in the long run.

nmnighteyes wrote:

Is there any reasonable way to slow her down a little without her simply playing sub-optimally? Because that isn't any fun either.
Or do we just accept that she is the main character and the rest of us are Sidekicks at best?


If she's not sharing her cash or loot with the rest of the posse, then the player is just playing it that way. If you consider it thematically, the Saloon Girl is keeping everything to herself. If she gets into some trouble, in the spirit of theme and game, you could ignore her plight!
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Adria D
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Godzillian wrote:
nmnighteyes wrote:
She have been very lucky by drawing both the personal weapon giving a free attack and the gear card that grants a free attack so that isn't helping.


Just to confirm, you are making only one free attack per hero turn, correct? In the rulebook (page 25), it says that

"No more than 1 Free Attack may be made by a Hero in a single turn."

This.

Also, many Free Attack items are limited to once per fight, including her Hold-out Pistol.

Depending on the layout of your mines and her upgrades (if she doesn't get the 'able to use normal guns' upgrade), she will always be restricted by being a melee character. Only being able to hit what's adjacent can be quite limiting, depending on what you're fighting. Big hordes often favor the shooters (especially in narrow areas). Trederra (and other ranged enemies) often favor the shooters too. But put a well-equipped melee character next to a couple Night Terrors or a Goliath and they can clean up.
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Philip Jelley
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It rather depends on whether the Saloon Girl player is willing to accept the limitations placed on her. The easiest way is to pool your posse's XP, dollars, and/or gear, which means that she strengthens the posse rather than herself. Other players are less concerned about her earning extra dollars and picking up gear cards if these are shared around.
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Jee Fu
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Coupla things here:

A 500 XP difference isn't much, in the long run. I routinely play in Posses where there's a 2-3 Level spread between the highest lvl Hero and the lowest (which at mid-high levels can be like a 7K XP difference all told) and it's fine. The derivative of her XP gain vs the rest of the posse is a far more important stat (the rate at which she gains XP relative to the rest of the Posse).

The real question is: are you having fun? If she is consistently killing everything before anyone gets a Turn, then you have a problem. Otherwise, rejoice in your companion's fortune - it's a Co-Op game after all. The pendulum swings both ways.

As Philip said, the fastest and easiest way to ensure that all Heroes progress at exactly the same rate is to just to pool XP and loot. The better way (controversially defined as "without having change the rules") is to get some of the expansion packs. The monsters are tougher to kill in a single Turn, and the Frontier Town Expansion makes it so the Saloon isn't always on the board during a Town stay (among many, many other additions).

- Jee
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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You don't have to level up immediately. Just bank the XP and level up with the group

-shnar
 
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Michael NA
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Godzillian wrote:
Just to confirm, you are making only one free attack per hero turn, correct? In the rulebook (page 25), it says that

"No more than 1 Free Attack may be made by a Hero in a single turn."


Yup, only 1 pr. turn and each weapon only once pr fight.

Godzillian wrote:
As far as I can recall, the Casino has a special action that only the Saloon Girl can do, where she can earn money and draw Gear cards. The Rancher has no special locations or actions that she can do in Town, so it's only natural that the Saloon Girl nets more cash than the Rancher in the long run.


Only Natural it might be, but seems very unbalanced that 1 character earns twice as much as another. Of course I feel it harder me playing the Rancher, so I try to take my frustration with a grain of salt.


Godzillian wrote:
If she's not sharing her cash or loot with the rest of the posse, then the player is just playing it that way. If you consider it thematically, the Saloon Girl is keeping everything to herself. If she gets into some trouble, in the spirit of theme and game, you could ignore her plight!

That will also be the result, especially as the player is the one most prone to bitching about the slightest thing not going her way.

Philip Jelley wrote:
It rather depends on whether the Saloon Girl player is willing to accept the limitations placed on her. The easiest way is to pool your posse's XP, dollars, and/or gear, which means that she strengthens the posse rather than herself. Other players are less concerned about her earning extra dollars and picking up gear cards if these are shared around.

That IS a good idea, but at present it's not what the posse as a whole is interested in apparently.

Inspector Jee wrote:
A 500 XP difference isn't much, in the long run. I routinely play in Posses where there's a 2-3 Level spread between the highest lvl Hero and the lowest (which at mid-high levels can be like a 7K XP difference all told) and it's fine. The derivative of her XP gain vs the rest of the posse is a far more important stat (the rate at which she gains XP relative to the rest of the Posse).

This is our first playthrough, but if the first 3 sessions are an indication of how it will look in the future, she earns 33% more than the posse average.
And knowing the player, once she reaches level 8, the idea of either starting ALL new characters or moving to a new game will be brought up at least once every session.

Inspector Jee wrote:
The real question is: are you having fun? If she is consistently killing everything before anyone gets a Turn, then you have a problem. Otherwise, rejoice in your companion's fortune - it's a Co-Op game after all. The pendulum swings both ways.

Yes, so far i am, but already she is cleaning up half the enemies on her turn... And until we get wave 2 (didn't get 1.5 because customs to europe) it seems unlikely for that to slow down very much...
And if she continues to outpace the party she will dictate the Posse level and thus be better equiped (see my concern about Town earning) and in terms of abilities to take them out making it so much harder for the rest of us to get any kills...

shnar wrote:
You don't have to level up immediately. Just bank the XP and level up with the group

Yeah, mentioned that to her too, so instead she simply leveled up twice during last session to avoid going below half in one of her stats...


Anyways, thanks for all your input guys.
What I gather is that I simply need to adjust my expectations to this game and accept that Saloon Girl is simply better equipped to handle any single portion of the game than my Rancher.
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Eric Harman
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Get a double barrel shotgun. Put a ds grip on it. Buy ds bullets.

You'll catch up on kills.

Or better yet, get the law keyword and the punisher shotty
 
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Thorsten Schröder
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You could have her find the right guy. Marry and seddle down, have some kids.
In the real world that usually slows the careers of women down.
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The rancher has a bit of a slow start but has no problem raking in XP after the first few levels. A 3-shot rifle or 4-shot shotgun with Rapid Fire can easily net you multiple kills each round.

@Cooperton: What are some good options for reliably or permanently getting a rancher the Law keyword?
 
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Eric Harman
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Guurzak wrote:
The rancher has a bit of a slow start but has no problem raking in XP after the first few levels. A 3-shot rifle or 4-shot shotgun with Rapid Fire can easily net you multiple kills each round.

@Cooperton: What are some good options for reliably or permanently getting a rancher the Law keyword?


Authority of o'tar. A targa artifact.

And rolling a 12 at the frontier outpost.
To roll a 12 reliably, you need a gold ring (and a tophat so you can use the ring)

There's probably others I can't think of.
 
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J M
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My saloon girl in our five player games is typically at the bottom of XP and combat effectiveness, likely because I took Acrobatic Dodge.

Our rancher had similar complaints (vs the gunslinger) and we did some Excel math explaining how going with a double barrel shotgun can turn him into a killing machine.
 
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Adria D
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AceAceBaby wrote:
My saloon girl in our five player games is typically at the bottom of XP and combat effectiveness, likely because I took Acrobatic Dodge.

Our rancher had similar complaints (vs the gunslinger) and we did some Excel math explaining how going with a double barrel shotgun can turn him into a killing machine.

My Saloon Girl has Acrobatic Dodge and usually does quite well. She's gone fully up the Acrobatics tree, so auto-passes Escape tests. The ability to get to wherever she needs to be to swing her Void Hammer (kicking along the way) is great. The relatively high Initiative helps too.
 
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Jee Fu
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Acrobatic Dodge and things like it (Hitman, for instance) are going to see an indirect buff in FoFo due to the elevation mechanic. This is good, because those Starting Upgrades are pretty lackluster compared to things like Dirty Fighting and Reckless.

- Jee
 
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Michael NA
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AceAceBaby wrote:
My saloon girl in our five player games is typically at the bottom of XP and combat effectiveness, likely because I took Acrobatic Dodge.

Our rancher had similar complaints (vs the gunslinger) and we did some Excel math explaining how going with a double barrel shotgun can turn him into a killing machine.


I've actually had that discussion elsewhere on this forum already...
My reservations about the DB shotgun is the lack of range since I am often more than 4 squares away from the enemies at the end of my first movement in combat due to being in a party with a Saloon Girl which can move through models, a Bandido with both grit mechanics active and a knack for rolling 2 when at full grit for more movement and 6 the rest of the time and finally a outlaw with 2 movement die and extra movement...

Also, at level 8 fully upgraded DB shotgun vs rifle, the damage pr attack has a less than 1 damage difference against most enemies.
 
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Eric Harman
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nmnighteyes wrote:
AceAceBaby wrote:
My saloon girl in our five player games is typically at the bottom of XP and combat effectiveness, likely because I took Acrobatic Dodge.

Our rancher had similar complaints (vs the gunslinger) and we did some Excel math explaining how going with a double barrel shotgun can turn him into a killing machine.


I've actually had that discussion elsewhere on this forum already...
My reservations about the DB shotgun is the lack of range since I am often more than 4 squares away from the enemies at the end of my first movement in combat due to being in a party with a Saloon Girl which can move through models, a Bandido with both grit mechanics active and a knack for rolling 2 when at full grit for more movement and 6 the rest of the time and finally a outlaw with 2 movement die and extra movement...

Also, at level 8 fully upgraded DB shotgun vs rifle, the damage pr attack has a less than 1 damage difference against most enemies.


That's why you take "dressed for adventure" and carry both :-)
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Tim DuPertuis

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How many times does she go to the saloon per town visit? Limiting visits can slow her down if the number of visits is being abused.
 
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