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Gloom of Kilforth: A Fantasy Quest Game» Forums » General

Subject: Gloomhaven vs Gloom of Kilforth? rss

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v b
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I'm interested in both of these games VERY much. Just wondering which is currently looking to be the more "complex" of the 2 rules wise? I want a game with an evolving campaign, but also want to be able to teach to my friends.
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James Boardgame
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Don't know much about Gloomhaven except that it's supposedly a "Legacy-style" game. Gloom of Kilforth (which I've played in proto-type form and am happily awaiting the Kickstarter release) is a one-sitting game - sort of a condensed mash-up of some of the classics of the fantasy boardgame genre. I think GoK might be simpler, and GH have the campaign. They probably don't have much in common beyond the coincidence of the Gloom name and the Kickstarters having launched at the same time.
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Faelyn
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Gloomhaven is a neat game, but it's a persistence game, which isn't my thing personally.
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Jason Brown
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Skrell wrote:
I'm interested in both of these games VERY much. Just wondering which is currently looking to be the more "complex" of the 2 rules wise? I want a game with an evolving campaign, but also want to be able to teach to my friends.

I backed both and honestly can't say which is more complex. As far as an evolving campaign though, Gloomhaven is your best bet as Kilforth doesn't have one.
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Andrew Cargill
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I'd say they both have difference in complexity, but both are similarly easy to understand as long as the host has a good grasp on the rules and understands how the game should flow, Gloom of Kilforth seems more attuned to pick up and play than perhaps Gloomhaven which has a progressive campaign and while you can change your party size on the go it's not as easy to reset (though they are providing PnP files for reseting) if that's what you're wanting

Both games borrow similar mechanics from other games like Mage Knight, LoTR LCG and similar adventure/RPG style games so if you've played games like that you'll be able to pick both up quick...

I've backed both (late backer on GoK) as they seem to both be different enough in gameplay, my answer though
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v b
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I should clarify that by "evolving campaign" I didn't necessarily mean "persistent world" aka legacy. I meant more there is character progression of SOME sort.
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Michael Olsen
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Skrell wrote:
I should clarify that by "evolving campaign" I didn't necessarily mean "persistent world" aka legacy. I meant more there is character progression of SOME sort.


Thanks for the clarification, but I do not believe it really changes the replies.

Gloomhaven has a campaign with characters evolving during play (like, for example, Descent). Gloom of Kilforth is a "one sitting game" (like, for example, Runebound).

On top of that Gloomhaven is also a Legacy game, but I am sure there are some (cumbersome) ways around that.
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Chris Stanton
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In GoK, your character develops over the course of the game. However once the ancient evil is defeated & the cards go back in the box, it's reset.
Next game, start afresh once more.
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Jochen Wiesner
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Gloomhaven is the far more complex game by far. Tactical options are quite simple in Gloom of Kilforth, conflict resolution is done by simply rolling some dice according to the corresponding abilities, while the skirmisher part of Gloomhaven has a lot going on in terms of tactical depth, and even beyond that there's a lot of choices to be made.

But as the real question is which of these to games to buy, asking about complexity is probably not the right way to get a good answer. Both games, while being fantasy adventure games, don't have much in comming in terms of gameplay. Gloom of Kilforth tries to condense the content of an RPG campaign into a single game evening and mainly focusses on few big choices that drive the adventure forward, the setup is extremely random, and it seems to have a very high replayability. Gloomhaven is basically a tactical dungeon crawler with a mechanic that draws a lot from euro games, and the missions are embedded into a campaign world that changes all the time based on your choices. The campaign will last for about 100 hours or so, which more than makes up for the fact that the game has no replayability at all by design.

I backed both and am happy with it, hopefully being even happier once the games arrive. If I had to choose I'd take Gloomhaven because I am a big fan of thematic/euro hybrids and Choose Your Own Adventures with choices that really matter, but that is simply a matter of taste.
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The Game Steward
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The_Crimson_King wrote:
If I had to choose I'd take Gloomhaven because I am a big fan of thematic/euro hybrids and Choose Your Own Adventures with choices that really matter, but that is simply a matter of taste.


Not terribly relevant, but you may want to check out Perdition's Mouth: Abyssal Rift as well, if you haven't already. It's definitely a thematic/euro hybrid dungeon crawler, and Tristan was kind enough to design a card for the game.
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Itai Perez
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And what about Mistfall ? Isn't it also the same kind of game ? How does it compare ?
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Jochen Wiesner
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I own both, as well as Myth, Mage Knight, Journey: Wrath of Demons, Gears of War and Legends of Andor, but that probably isn't the point of this thread.
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v b
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Itai wrote:
And what about Mistfall ? Isn't it also the same kind of game ? How does it compare ?

Mistfall is almost EXACTLY what I'm looking for; unfortunately, IMO it has a very poor presentation with lots of generic looking cards full of text and little artwork. I'm hoping to see NKSN invest more in the presentation of their future games.
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The_Crimson_King wrote:
I own both, as well as Myth, Mage Knight, Journey: Wrath of Demons, Gears of War and Legends of Andor, but that probably isn't the point of this thread. :)

It wasn't...but what's your favorite and why?
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Jochen Wiesner
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Skrell wrote:
The_Crimson_King wrote:
I own both, as well as Myth, Mage Knight, Journey: Wrath of Demons, Gears of War and Legends of Andor, but that probably isn't the point of this thread.

It wasn't...but what's your favorite and why?


Of these? Mage Knight as a solo game, Legends of Andor as a coop game. Mage Knight, because it does a phenomenal job at delivering turn by turn puzzles while still feeling like an RPG light adventure with all that exploration, fighting and leveling, Andor because it perfectly intertwines storytelling and puzzly adventuring.

Of the dungeon crawlers/skirmishers, I'd name Myth right now despite its obvious and well known flaws. The rule engine itself is brilliant, but the rules aren't written all too well even in the 2.0 version, the base box is very incomplete and the game lacks pre written adventures. I didn't get to play Perdition's Mouth until now though, and that one along with Gloomhaven look extremely promising to me.
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Tristan Hall
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@Skrell, I haven’t read the rules for Gloomhaven but from what I understand it’s a strategic combat-based Legacy game and very different from Gloom of Kilforth. GoK is all about the developing story and growing your hero’s Saga, but only during the course of the one game – you don’t have to play with the same group every time or play many separate sessions to see the endgame. But there is definitely character progression during the game.
I think @James is right, in that they don’t really have much in common except the names.

@ABlindManSees, I believe you can also get PnP cards to play Gloomhaven again once you’ve finished the campaign.

@MAJBrown22, for campaign play we’d probably need feedback from hundreds of players before we could take you above the 4 chapters + finale structure of the core game of GoK.

@AndrewAU, Mage Knight and LoTR LCG are both great games. whistle

@Michael_Olsen, that’s a fair comparison I’d say.

@Toc13, exactly.

@The_Crimson_King, you have solid taste – that’s an excellent list of games!
In GoK we do mainly have dice rolling for conflicts, which can be mitigated by Action Points, Rumours/Fate and hero abilities, but the focus is on having lots of encounters to develop your story, rather than just fighting lots of baddies (though there is still baddie-bashing to be had).

@GreenLaborMike, Perdition's Mouth looks great and I can’t wait for my copy to arrive - and not just because of the Kilforth cards!

@Skrell, @Itai, I enjoyed Mistfall the time I played it, and I’ve ordered a copy of the expansion set.

@The_Crimson_King, have to agree about Mage Knight as a solo game – it’s pretty peerless right now. Never got to try Andor but I hear good things. I really enjoyed Myth too, but I had to have a friend explain it to me because I couldn’t parse the (original) rules!
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Dominic B
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Skrell wrote:
Itai wrote:
And what about Mistfall ? Isn't it also the same kind of game ? How does it compare ?

Mistfall is almost EXACTLY what I'm looking for; unfortunately, IMO it has a very poor presentation with lots of generic looking cards full of text and little artwork. I'm hoping to see NKSN invest more in the presentation of their future games.

I don't own Mistfall but read and saw a lot about it. I would say Gloomhaven might be pretty much your thing then, even if it is a hex-based, tactical dungeon crawler and not a card game. There is a lot of resource management going on in Gloomhaven in the form of when and how to use your cards to the highest effectiveness and to combo with the other heroes of the party. In this way it seems much more "complex" than Gloom of Kilforth to me.

But beware! Gloomhaven will have what you don't like about Mistfall: lots of cards full of text and - in this case - no artwork at all. The item cards will contain beautiful artwork and the monster and hero character art looks amazing but the event and hero ability cards will have no artwork at all.

So, if you are looking for gorgeous artwork you definitely need to check out Gloom of Kilforth. GoK will contain some of the best artwork you have seen in a game and lots of unique illustrations of characters, locations, enemies and so on. Just have a look at the game's gallery here at BGG and you can see this game is as much an artook as it is a game.


In the end both games are quite different in their gameplay. Best bet would be to watch the preview videos to Gloomhaven and Gloom of Kilforth to get a better understanding which gameplay suits you more:

Rhado runs through Gloomhaven PART 1

Gloom of Kilforth with Ricky Royal

Keep in mind that those videos contain very early prototype components and are only useful to get an impression of the gameplay not of the visual presentation of each game.
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v b
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Just an FYI: The more I read about Perdition's Mouth the more it sounds amazing and exactly like what I'm looking for! The only thing I'm not crazy about is all the cards with numbers on them...I understand why it works towards the sleek and innovative gameplay, but it also doesn't make for an exciting presentation.
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Christopher Senn
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The_Crimson_King wrote:
Skrell wrote:
The_Crimson_King wrote:
I own both, as well as Myth, Mage Knight, Journey: Wrath of Demons, Gears of War and Legends of Andor, but that probably isn't the point of this thread.

It wasn't...but what's your favorite and why?


Of these? Mage Knight as a solo game, Legends of Andor as a coop game. Mage Knight, because it does a phenomenal job at delivering turn by turn puzzles while still feeling like an RPG light adventure with all that exploration, fighting and leveling, Andor because it perfectly intertwines storytelling and puzzly adventuring.

Of the dungeon crawlers/skirmishers, I'd name Myth right now despite its obvious and well known flaws. The rule engine itself is brilliant, but the rules aren't written all too well even in the 2.0 version, the base box is very incomplete and the game lacks pre written adventures. I didn't get to play Perdition's Mouth until now though, and that one along with Gloomhaven look extremely promising to me.


Please do go on about myth 2.0 and perditions mouth. Those two are on my want list and it's hard to get a honest review about myth since 90% of the reviews just talk about the manual
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Michael Olsen
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Grove123 wrote:
Please do go on about myth 2.0 and perditions mouth. Those two are on my want list and it's hard to get a honest review about myth since 90% of the reviews just talk about the manual


And for good reason, unfortunately.

It is a fun game though, *if* you are prepared to patch the holes, and do some work for yourself it get it "working". This is even with v2.0 material, yes.

Personally I look forward to the new "modules", which are sort of mini campaigns in-a-box. The open Quest format is still too "loose" for my taste.

I like the card play and I like the story telling capability. I do not care so much for the lack of "proper" (whatever that means) progression rules and the general sloppiness of the game.
Oh, and it scales very poorly. I forget the best player count, possibly 4.

I hope this helps.
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Jochen Wiesner
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There are several really good how-to-play videos about Myth on youtube. These will answer nearly all questions that are raised after reading the myth 2.0 manual. So this shouldn't be to big an issue.

The bigger problem imho is that there are only two complete story modules right now, and the adventure mode, where you make up your own stories and create your own challenges, is not for everyone. Once the modules are out this won't be an issue any more though.

However, I can't state too often that Myth's game engine is absolutely brilliant if you are looking for a blend of tactical skirmishing and classic rpg dice rolling.
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Tristan Hall
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I'm really looking forward to Perdition's Mouth - not just because of the cross-over stuff - the gameplay looks unique and interesting.

And I've genuinely enjoyed Myth the times that I've played it, but I had to have a friend explain those rules to me, even though I own a copy. blush
The card play and tiles and miniatures are great, and the Journeyman stuff promises to be interesting too, particularly if the modules are more like a board game than the freeform RPG style base game, which may have relied a little too heavily on the 'make it up yourself' aspect of the game. A friend went full tilt on the Journeyman stuff and I'd like to give it another go once all that cool stuff arrives. cool
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