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Subject: Symbiosis rss

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Pierre Beri
France
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Symbiosis seems to be among the strongest defense traits, since the prerequisite it requires is very easy to create and maintain for many turns, because body size can never go down and your opponents can do nothing about it.
The only counter is Intelligence and by attacking the species to the right to extinction, which is often quite difficult. And even if the species to the right goes extinct, the symbiont can still remain protected by its new right-door neighbour. It’s really quite powerful and easy to set up.

How about something along the lines of:
Quote:
1) This species cannot be attacked if the species to the right has a larger body size and a larger sum of population+body size.

2) This species cannot be attacked if the species to the right has a larger body size and a larger (or equal?) population.

3) This species cannot be attacked if the species to the right has a larger body size and a larger sum of population+body size.


1) sounds more clunky but I think it makes most sense thematically. You couldn’t imagine 1 diplodocus (size 6) protecting 5 stegosauri (size 4), could you? And yet, this is what happens in the game.
However, you could more easily imagine 1 diplodocus protecting 6 bunnies (size 1).

2) is more streamlined and easier to see in a glance, but less thematic, as explained above.

3) is not as clunky as 1) and rather streamlined as well.
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Andrew Colvin
United Kingdom
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I see where you're coming from, but I don't think there' much need for it. In most games I've seen, symbiotic species tend to be on the small side anyway since their need for body size is so much less. And, as you say, they want to stay small so that if their host becomes extinct, they will still be smaller than their next neighbour.

I don't think there would be any problems caused by playing it your way. But it is, as you say, much more complicated.
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Pierre Beri
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inle_badger wrote:
But it is, as you say, much more complicated.
I didn’t say "much" Option #3 seems to offer the best compromise (a herd of 6 horned bunnies could certainly defend 1 diplo, living around it).
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Pierre Beri
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Am I the only one thinking that Symbiosis is the most reliable defensive trait?
 
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Konrad Patena
Poland
Warsaw
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It pretty much is. Horns doesn't depend on other species, though, and who would attack a hedgehog anyway?
 
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Dominic Crapuchettes
United States
Bethesda
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beri2 wrote:
Am I the only one thinking that Symbiosis is the most reliable defensive trait?

No! Symbiosis is my favorite defensive trait. It requires 2 extra cards to work: another species and an extra card for Body Size, but those are both features that help my position so I'm happy for the extra commitment. The extra card commitment means it's not my favorite defensive card in my opening hand, but it's my clear favorite starting at round 2 or 3.

Someone posted a poll over a year ago. Here it is:

Poll: Evolution Trait Cards
1. In your experience which Trait Cards are the most powerful in 2nd edition Evolution base game? Please pick up to three.
Ambush
Burrowing
Carnivore
Climbing
Cooperation
Defensive Herding
Fat Tissue
Fertile
Foraging
Hard Shell
Horns
Intelligence
Long Neck
Pack Hunting
Scavanger
Symbiosis
Warning Call
2. In your experience which Trait Cards are the least powerful in 2nd edition Evolution base game? Please pick up to three.
Ambush
Burrowing
Carnivore
Climbing
Cooperation
Defensive Herding
Fat Tissue
Fertile
Foraging
Hard Shell
Horns
Intelligence
Long Neck
Pack Hunting
Scavanger
Symbiosis
Warning Call
      120 answers
Poll created by kalma


I'd love to get more people to take the poll to see if it starts to more closely reflect my experience with the game.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1426658/poll-most-and-least...

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Pierre Beri
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domcrap wrote:
beri2 wrote:
Am I the only one thinking that Symbiosis is the most reliable defensive trait?

No! Symbiosis is my favorite defensive trait.
Dominic, do you have an opinion on my suggestions?

I tend to like #3 better and I may be tempted to try it in my next games.

GrannyRELee wrote:
It pretty much is. Horns doesn't depend on other species, though, and who would attack a hedgehog anyway?
At least the attacker doesn't go extinct and if the horned player is in the lead, they can be held back, which would not be possible with Symbiosis.
 
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Dominic Crapuchettes
United States
Bethesda
MD
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beri2 wrote:
Dominic, do you have an opinion on my suggestions?

I probably prefer it the way it is, but if I had to choose between your options I would choose:

Quote:
2) This species cannot be attacked if your species to the right has a larger Body Size and a larger Population.


The others are too confusing at first glance. Make sure you don't underestimate how much each slight incremental increase in complication compounds into a negative experience for new players. As far as I'm concerned, this is the most common mistake that rookie game designers make.
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Pierre Beri
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Pack hunting is not overly complicated
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Jim A
United States
Daytona Beach
Florida
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GrannyRELee wrote:
It pretty much is. Horns doesn't depend on other species, though, and who would attack a hedgehog anyway?


Hungry Carnivores. Especially those wanting to eliminate your species (plural) to keep your score down. It's not like you're not going to found another species next turn, right?
 
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